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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 June 2025
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Displaying 804 contributions

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Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2023-24

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Daniel Johnson

I am not sure that I entirely follow what you have just set out. When you talk about market costs, are you saying that, in essence, the costs of the next-best alternative are forgone—in other words, if you went to the market, that is what would be charged—or are you saying that it is just 57.5 per cent more expensive to audit a college because of the nature of the work and the things that you have to verify? If so, could you explain that? Are you saying that there has been a change in circumstances in that sector compared with others and compared with previous years?

Ultimately, we are saying that the costs are going up. Has there been a change in what you are required to audit? What makes doing an audit of a college more than a half more expensive than it was previously, compared with audits of local government and the NHS? If you were to ask me to guess, I would have said that what they do is more complicated than what a college does and, therefore, they would be more complicated to audit. Where does the cost come from?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2023-24

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Daniel Johnson

The other things that obviously impact on that salary line are the overall numbers and your turnover. Can I clarify what the turnover numbers are? I see that in appendix 4 there is a 2 per cent vacancy turnover assumption. Is that the assumption and how is that borne out compared to the actual turnover rate over the last period?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2023-24

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Daniel Johnson

Four per cent delta is quite large if your actuals are at 6 per cent but your plan in front of us is 2 per cent.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2023-24

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Daniel Johnson

What is it about the college sector that requires that much? It is such a substantial amount more.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2023-24

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Daniel Johnson

Do you check the bids against what you think it would cost you to do the work yourself?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2023-24

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Daniel Johnson

Why is there a 60 per cent gap?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2023-24

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Daniel Johnson

I will dig a little bit further into salary increases—and the contingency, since it has been mentioned. In response to Mr Ruskell’s questions you have been talking about the qualitative aspects. Given that you are accountants, can I ask you about the numbers? In particular, your industry is widely understood, with clear transferable skills. How have you compared your salary uplifts to industry norms? What are industry salary increases running at?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2023-24

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Daniel Johnson

That would be helpful. Certainly in a previous life, I was used to a utilisation rate of between 60 and 80 per cent. It would be interesting and useful to know what parameters you are using.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2023-24

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Daniel Johnson

Okay. Thank you very much. [Interruption.] I obviously have the chair looking at that now; I am finished, chair.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2023-24

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Daniel Johnson

I have probably used up more than my time, but I will ask one very blunt, bottom-line question. The overall budget request of £34.9 million represents a 4.8 per cent increase on your previous year’s budget. That 4.8 per cent seems incredibly close to the gross domestic product deflator of 4.8 per cent for the coming financial year. I want to understand whether that was your starting point or is it a bottom-up? I hope you do not mind my asking this question. I am sure that auditors would agree with me that you should always take a closer look at coincidences when they occur and when numbers seem to match each other.