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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 August 2025
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Displaying 732 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Ruth Maguire

I am sorry to interrupt; it is quite awkward when we are hearing from witnesses remotely. I am keen to hear specifically about how the model helps families. You are still talking about the organisation rather than children and families.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Ruth Maguire

If I were going to be gently provocative, I might say that 10 years feels like quite a long time to get to the point at which you understand that you need to support families as well as children. Am I picking you up unfairly?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Ruth Maguire

So, who is responsible for an integration agreement between the two organisations? Why has it not happened?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Ruth Maguire

It gives an example of the work that you are doing. What I am trying to get at—I will probably start sounding like a broken record—is what that means if, for example, I am the mother of a child who has difficulties. Do I pick up your directory and phone whichever service I think suits them, after which I will then be plugged right into it? Is that what is happening on the ground in Fife?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Ruth Maguire

That was helpful. Martin, do you have any reflections on that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Ruth Maguire

Okay. That probably shows the need for us all to reflect on children and families rather than organisations.

It would be good to hear from some of the other witnesses.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Ruth Maguire

Good morning. I had some questions about structure, but I think that you have covered that issue pretty well in your answers about the importance of leadership and the issue of culture versus structure. I also hear Jude Currie loud and clear when she talks about her members feeling depleted if navigating around the structures takes more energy than doing the job itself.

One aspect of leadership and culture that we have not talked about is accountability. What risks and opportunities do you see in the proposal to move accountability for children’s services from local authorities to Scottish Government ministers?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Ruth Maguire

Acknowledging that, can I press you for some examples?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Ruth Maguire

The committee is being told that no decision has yet been taken about whether children’s services will be included in the bill. Is it fair and reasonable to do that intensive work with children and young people—which, if a human rights-based approach is taken, will include some vulnerable children and children with additional support needs—if what they are expecting might not be the outcome? How do you do that in a way that is fair to them?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Ruth Maguire

Good morning. I have found this session really useful. Colleagues have covered a lot of ground.

I take on board the points that you make about the importance or otherwise of structure. We have experience of going through health and social care integration. Reflecting back on that and looking forward to potential change that is coming, I am interested in what lessons have been learned. Some of the concerns that have been raised about the bill are around the risk of disruption of services.

From the perspective of children and families in our communities that need the services that are provided, what lessons have we learned through integration that can help us as we move forward?