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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 November 2025
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Displaying 757 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Ruth Maguire

Good morning, panel. Thank you for your evidence so far. It has been really helpful.

I want to ask about movement restriction conditions. We have received written evidence from Includem and from Who Cares? Scotland, and we have picked up on some of the issues in that regard.

Meg Thomas mentioned the lack of automatic legal representation for a young person who might be subject to an MRC. Meg, can you say a bit more about that and why it is an issue?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Ruth Maguire

Thank you. That is all very helpful.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Ruth Maguire

Thank you. You answered my two follow-up questions in one answer, which was great.

I had a question on the subjectiveness of psychological harm. I am interested in hearing about the victim’s perspective from Kate Wallace, because there are two sides to that subjectivity.

However, I will come to Laura Pasternak first. Laura, you spoke about stigma and the potential issue that the place where someone is allowed to be is not actually safe for them. Do you want to say a bit more about that issue? Is there anything else that you want to scoop up around that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Ruth Maguire

Thank you. That is helpful.

Kate, we spoke about that point, and the committee is quite aware of the balance of rights that exists, because, often in those instances, it is two children or young people that have been affected by whatever is going on to cause involvement with the justice system. Do you have any comments, from the perspective of a victim, on the widening out of the provision to include

“physical or psychological harm to another person”?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Ruth Maguire

Good morning. I would like to ask about the changes to movement restriction conditions. Do you think that the provisions in the bill go far enough to support the rights of children? Alison Gough, you spoke a little bit about the balancing of rights, so I will come to you first.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Ruth Maguire

We heard from the first panel that it would be highly unlikely for a child in need not to meet the means and merits test. If there is a difficulty with pressures on legal aid solicitors in that, if legal aid is not automatic, it might be problematic for children—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Ruth Maguire

I am sorry to cut in again, but I just want to make sure that I am getting this right. Are you saying that, for an MRC to work and for someone to be kept at home, their home has to be safe and stable, which is perhaps why MRCs are not used?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Ruth Maguire

Good morning. I want to ask about compulsory supervision orders. The bill makes several changes to movement restriction conditions, including broadening the criteria for MRCs to include

“consideration of ‘harm’ rather than ‘injury’”,

and the use of MRCs

“where it is necessary to help the child to avoid causing physical or psychological harm to others.”

We have received written evidence from the SCRA on the use of “fear, alarm and distress” as a subjective test. I would be keen to hear the panel members’ views on those proposed changes. We have heard about the positive side of using subjective approaches, but there is also risk in there. I am particularly interested in the point that has been raised that

“there is a risk that children could be placed on MRCs, and have their liberty and behaviour restricted for a far wider range of behaviour”

than might be intended in the bill. It is your evidence that I am referring to, Alistair, so I will come to you first. We can then hear from the other panel members.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Ruth Maguire

Your evidence also mentions the potential absence of legal representation.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Ruth Maguire

You all agree. Thank you.