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That was helpful. It seems that almost everybody wants to come in on this question, so I will just move along the panel. Obviously, please keep your comments to something new that has not already been said.

Good morning—just, by four minutes. Thank you for your evidence so far.

One of the themes of the committee’s stage 1 scrutiny was awareness and understanding of the legislation on private rented housing. I have a general question. Is the proposed new system easy for tenants and landlords to understand?

If you were in the room during the previous panel, you will have heard me ask those witnesses the same question. To summarise their response, it was pretty much unanimous that the new system was difficult to understand, but there was also a strong view that that should not necessarily delay things moving forward—it is about supporting and helping people to understand it. Does anyone have thoughts on that? You can tie that in to what the previous panel said if you heard it.

I will not try to do what I did the last time and ask everybody to speak. I pass back to the convener to chair who wants to come in, given the time constraints.

I broadly agree with Mr Bibby. As he has, I have long been advocating on this issue in the Parliament. Indeed, I have lodged two motions in this parliamentary session alone, on the publication of the “National Primary School Swimming Framework” and on the role of swimming pools, and both achieved cross-party support. That support, which you mentioned at the start, convener, is important. Moreover, back in March 2023, I held a successful garden lobby event entitled, “Everyone Can Swim—Save Our Pools”, so there is a bit of history to this issue.

Like Neil Bibby, I do not have the time to express fully my views on the petition, but I point to the many benefits of swimming—mental health, physical health, community cohesion, social and safety skills—and all the things that can be improved by swimming. Scottish Swimming has cited research that the social value of swimming in the UK is almost £2.5 billion. A small investment in protecting pools now will provide exponential returns for society in the future.

As the convener indicated in his opening remarks—I think that this got broad agreement—I strongly believe that we need to move away from the notion of swimming being just another hobby or sport. Of course, it can be argued that any sport brings benefits similar to those that I just cited, but we need to go back to considering swimming as a vital skill or, at the very least, an important life skill.

I do not know about other members, but that was definitely the case when I was growing up in Coatbridge. We used to go to the Coatbridge baths as part of our curriculum at primary school and high school, and everyone was given the opportunity to learn to swim. It was embedded in us that swimming was a life skill. Now, it is more down to whether families across the country have the finances to do it—I am fortunate enough to be able to send my children to swimming lessons—and whether it is a priority on a family’s radar.

We need to move back to swimming being more of a life skill and that is never more important than now, as we are all seeking more outdoor activities, which has perhaps been boosted by the pandemic. I cannot be the only one whose Facebook feed is filled with people going wild swimming or dooking. I have tried it myself. It is very good and it is quite right that people should be accessing our lovely seas and lochs, which are some of the cleanest in the UK, if not in Europe and the world. People should be accessing that, but it needs to be safe.

I have said previously that it could be a perfect storm if we have the smallest number of people able to swim than perhaps we have ever had, combined with more folk accessing outdoor swimming. We need to take the opportunity to see swimming as a life skill again.

I would go further than the petition, because I would fully support any attempts to introduce statutory swimming lessons. I know that there are difficulties with that in the school curriculum. I have had discussions about that with ministers over the years, but I would welcome any attempts that could be made to introduce lessons being a statutory requirement.

I appreciate that I am probably running out of time, so I will end by giving my full support to the petition. I have deliberately not touched on the pool closures in Dundee and other places, because they are not in my constituency, but any pool closures across the country are concerning. Mr Bibby touched on some of the issues around that; some are for the Scottish Government, but some are for the UK Government, such as the high energy costs. I wonder whether the UK Government could look at exemptions for swimming pools. I know that there has also been a shortage of chlorine at points, which has affected pools in North Lanarkshire. There are various factors that affect the issue, some of which are global, some of which are UK and some of which are Scottish. However, we need to find an approach in which we all work together to make sure that swimming pools are vibrant into the future, and that as many young people and adults as possible learn to swim.

I think that you are both saying that it is important that people have a choice—an informed choice—about which option is best for them.

I have one further question, on the first area in which the bill proposes to move from temporary to permanent provisions: the electronic signing and transmission of legal documents in criminal cases. Do you regard those provisions as helpful, or are there situations in which it might be more helpful for the people with whom you work to do that using the old-fashioned paper method?

Before I move on to ask Adam Stachura about that, do you support the development of fully virtual trial courts to deal with some of the types of case that people who have come to you might have been involved in?

That is interesting—thank you.

I am sorry; that was my fault. I am asking you before I go to Adam.

Adam, on the same point, I take it that you are supportive of the measures. Do you likewise believe that they should be made permanent, as the bill proposes?

I apologise that I missed the first part of the meeting. I was at the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee, which was discussing a petition in which I have had a long-running interest. I mention that because I am running the risk that you have already answered or touched on the question that I am going to ask. If that is the case, please just tell me.

I go back to the provisions that are temporary and that the Government is looking to be made permanent. One third of those relate to higher fiscal fines, with a maximum of £500, rather than the pre-Covid £300 maximum. In principle, is the offering of fiscal fines an appropriate option? If so, in what types of cases should they be used? Are there are cases in which they should not be used at all? I am quite happy with whoever wants to answer that.

My follow-up question probably goes where you were going with that. Have you seen any examples of fiscal fines of up to £500 being used inappropriately? Have you come across that in your practice and can you comment on it?