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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 31 October 2025
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Displaying 930 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Yes, if that is okay.

10:15  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

That is what we have been told by previous witnesses. There are worries about the term.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Those are significant waiting times, which is what we have heard. How does the 4,000 figure compare with previous years and over time? Is the figure fairly static or has it been increasing?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Once the person is receiving support from a gender identity clinic, for how long, on average, will they receive support? I know that that will vary, as everything does, but is there an average length of time for which you support people?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

The interim Cass review, which today’s earlier panel and previous panels have referred to, has reported an increase in the number of young people who are seeking appointments at gender identity clinics. I accept that the review was primarily about what is happening south of the border; are you saying that that is possibly also an outcome of the Covid pandemic in Scotland?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Good morning to the panel, and thank you for your opening statements and responses so far.

I have questions on two areas that I have explored with previous panels, which are the requirement to live in the acquired gender for three months and the three-month reflection period. I will start with the former issue. From all the previous panels so far, I have picked up that, in what is quite a controversial bill, this seems to be an area of broad agreement, although perhaps not for exactly the same reasons.

We have heard from those who support the bill that the requirement to live in the acquired gender for three months could be seen as demeaning, because it is likely that the individual will have been living that way for quite some time. Those who have concerns about the bill—I will say that rather than that they are opposed to it—think that the time period is not long enough. That perhaps relates to the concerns that Naomi Cunningham mentioned about the bill perhaps increasing the number of people going through the process by more than the Scottish Government thinks that it will.

I will start with Sharon Cowan. What are your views on that? Obviously, we have also heard from across the board that there is a concern about the use of the term “acquired gender” and what it might mean. Do you have any views on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

I get where you are coming from. You have continually highlighted and worked on the issue, and I respect that. However, with regard to amendment 1040, the fiscal fine is a fundamental part of the justice system that allows a diversion from prosecution. There has to be a balance. At some point, a line has to be drawn in relation to what the rest of the community can be told. If somebody accepts a fine of that nature, they are essentially accepting that they do not need to go to court and have their innocence or guilt proven.

I have real concerns about amendment 1040. I am not saying that there is no merit at all in what you are saying, but amendment 1040 would make a massive change to how we do justice in this country.

Similarly, on amendment 1038—I will speak only to amendments 1040 and 1038—

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

I think that the member is trying to overpersonalise it. He does not know whether I have been a victim of an offence and he does not know what my reaction was or would be to finding out information. Trying to bring it down to that level by directing that question to me is probably not appropriate.

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Some of the amendments in this group reflect the evidence that we heard in committee. I sympathise with Pauline McNeill, but, given what Rona Mackay said in her intervention on Katy Clark, I think that amendment 1035 goes too far. Virtual and remote hearings are useful in some circumstances, such as those involving domestic abuse or other crimes of that nature. On the other hand, there are human rights issues regarding trials always taking place virtually, and we heard concerns about that. The Government amendments 1005 to 1007 strike the right balance. I say that in support of them. I hope that Pauline McNeill will not press amendment 1035 or move amendment 1036.

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

If somebody goes right through a court process and is found guilty or not guilty, that is public information, so the public are aware of that and would find out what the disposal was. The whole purpose of fiscal fines is to avoid prosecution, so we need to draw the line somewhere on the information that we share. Does the member not accept that? I will allow him to come back in with an intervention.