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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 24 May 2025
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Displaying 891 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

If somebody goes right through a court process and is found guilty or not guilty, that is public information, so the public are aware of that and would find out what the disposal was. The whole purpose of fiscal fines is to avoid prosecution, so we need to draw the line somewhere on the information that we share. Does the member not accept that? I will allow him to come back in with an intervention.

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Given our debates during previous committee sessions, Russell Findlay and Jamie Greene will probably not be surprised to hear that I have huge reservations about the amendments in this group.

On amendment 1040, I disagree with what Jamie Greene has just said. The whole purpose of a fiscal fine is that, once it has been offered, the individual will not go through the due court process in which they are found guilty or innocent. Therefore, although I have sympathy with the idea of victims getting to hear about what has happened in their case—who would not?—if somebody accepts a fiscal fine, that is a non-conviction disposal. [Interruption.] Wait a second, Mr Findlay. It remains on their record for two years and can be used as a source of information only in quite exceptional circumstances, such as another appearance at court.

If individuals are told that information, an unintended consequence of amendment 1040 could be that the result for the individual who receives a fiscal fine could be the same as if they had been convicted in court from the point of view of the impact on them in the community. Various examples could be given. There might be situations in which folk might not have a lot of sympathy with that, but there could also be situations in which a young teenager has got himself involved in bother and that could have a massive impact on the rest of his life.

The whole purpose of the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service having access to such disposals is so that it can use its judgment on when to divert people away from prosecution.

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

On amendment 1040?

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

I have not finished what I was going to say. Some people would want to know and others would not, but that is not the point of amendment 1040.

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

As I have already said about amendment 1040, I am not saying that the principle of what Graham Simpson is saying does not have some merit, but that is not where the issue fits into our criminal justice process, which is why I have concerns.

I also have concerns about amendment 1038, because it could restrict the offences for which the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service could offer fiscal fines. During evidence, we heard concerns about a potential increase in the gravity of the offences that fiscal fines could be used for, but we have to trust the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service to act in the interests of justice, as I believe it always does. Therefore, I do not support amendment 1038.

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

I know that and was coming to it, but thanks for that clarification. I am aware that amendment 1036 is about people who are in custody, but we are talking about the various angles on that. Jamie Greene mentioned to you the police concerns about resourcing. The Government amendments 1005 to 1007 strike the right balance and I support them.

On Jamie Greene’s amendment 1010 and Katy Clark’s amendment 1034, it goes without saying that we all want reporting mechanisms in place that allow us to get a sense of what is going on. We have had a couple of years of doing virtual trials, hearings and appearances in court but it is still not a load of time. Therefore, the cabinet secretary’s offer to Jamie Greene is valuable. I hope that Jamie Greene will take that up when he considers whether to move amendment 1010. There should be no doubt that the Government and all members of the committee want to get the best information about how virtual appearances and hearings are working.

I support the Government amendments 1005 to 1007. A good offer has been made to Jamie Greene.

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Okay; I had not started on amendment 1038.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Good morning. We took a lot of evidence last week on the issue of prisons in relation to the bill. I give credit to the clerks that you are here at the right time for us to follow up on what we heard last week, and I will follow on from my colleague Pam Gosal’s line of questioning on one of the concerns that we heard. The whole purpose of the GRC is, of course, to make the process easier. This is a theoretical question and might be difficult to answer fully, but, based on your experience in the Prison Service, do you think that more people in the prison population will seek a GRC if the bill is passed?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Good morning. I have questions on two provisions in the bill: the provision on living in the acquired gender for three months, and the proposed three-month reflection period.

On the provision on living in the acquired gender for three months, we have heard quite a lot of evidence that suggests that that is unnecessary, both from those who generally support the bill and from those who have concerns about the bill. I am happy to hear from the witnesses in any order, but I will start with Anthony Horan, as that is the order that we have used so far. Anthony, what are your thoughts on that specific provision?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Fulton MacGregor

I will come back to you on that separately. Chris and Fraser, do you have anything to add?