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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 September 2025
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Displaying 907 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2023

Fulton MacGregor

I am conscious of the time. Dr Hill, I know that you want to come back in, but I will leave that decision to the convener. However, I want to ask whether Graham O’Neill can come in on that question from a refugee perspective.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2023

Fulton MacGregor

I was to ask only two people, so I will come to Sandy Brindley.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2023

Fulton MacGregor

Good afternoon. I want to ask about trauma-informed practice. I think that all of you were in the room for our discussions with the previous panel, so you will have heard what was said. What difference do you expect or hope that the provisions in part 2 of the bill will make in practice?

I would also like to hear your answers to a question that I asked the previous panel. Like the organisations represented on the previous panel, your organisations all already use trauma-informed practice with victims and other people you work with. If part of the intention of the bill is to create a cultural shift, how can that be spread across the whole justice system? What role can the bill play in delivering that?

I ask Dr Hill to start.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2023

Fulton MacGregor

It feels as though almost all the witnesses are roughly in the same place. Some people, such as Marsha Scott, are opposed to the proposal for a commissioner but can see some good points to it, while others, such as Sandy Brindley, are for it but have given huge caveats.

I apologise to the convener, but I want to ask a general question. If the Parliament or the Government decided to withdraw part 1 of the bill, how could the main aims behind the proposal for a commissioner be achieved through existing statutory or voluntary mechanisms? Marsha Scott is nodding, so I will come to her first.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2023

Fulton MacGregor

Following on from that conversation, I want to ask whether you think that the bill is about trying to make a culture shift in the justice agencies. After all, trauma-informed practice has been around for a long time; I think that most folk involved in the sector in one form or another are pretty clear about what it is, and the agencies sitting here today have been practising it with victims of crimes for many years now, and to a high standard.

Outside your agencies, though, the rest of the justice sector is predominantly concerned with the accused—or, ultimately, the offender, if the person is convicted. Indeed, I know that from my time as a justice social worker. Trauma-informed practice with offenders is a pretty important thing, as you can imagine, but even in justice social work, there has been only limited and minimal scope to carry out that kind of work with victims. How much is the bill trying to look at agencies across the board, not just justice social work, which I have already mentioned, but also the courts, to ensure that victims are taken more into account in a trauma-informed way?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

Fulton MacGregor

Good morning to the panel. I would like to explore two areas. The first is the proposal to make it an offence to use the title of lawyer when there is an

“intent to deceive ... in connection with providing ... legal services”.

As this is our first evidence session, I am looking for comments on where the witnesses stand on that provision. By extension, is there any risk that regulating the title of lawyer unduly restricts the work of other unregulated lawyers, such as paralegals, legal academics and so on? I am looking for a broad view on where you stand on the provision. I am quite happy to hear from you in any order. [Interruption.] Do not all rush.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

Fulton MacGregor

Does anybody else have any views on that? Excellent. Thanks very much. That was good.

I also want to ask about the bill’s provisions on alternative business structures. Again, I am looking for a broad discussion-based response to get your thoughts on the proposals to liberalise ABSs and what impact that might have on consumer practice.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

Fulton MacGregor

I have a follow-up question, for anybody actually, but Marsha Scott might want to come in on it. The bill also removes the requirement that ABSs provide services for “fee, gain or reward”. Could that open up opportunities for law centres or charities such as yours to become ABSs? Have you thought about that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Fulton MacGregor

I have a brief question because we have covered a lot already. It follows on from Katy Clark’s line of questioning. Priority may be the wrong word, but I am interested in understanding whether the Government has a priority within the reforms and where any lines in the sand might be. If this committee, or the Parliament as a whole, decided to amend the bill—for example to retain the not proven verdict or to require only a simple majority for a guilty verdict—where would the Government stand on that? Does part 4 of the bill have to come as a whole package?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Fulton MacGregor

My questions are on part 6 of the bill and anonymity for victims. Cabinet secretary, can you outline the advantages of replacing the current approach to anonymity for victims of sexual offences with a statutory protection, as outlined in the bill?