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I think that it will help us to get there. To go back to the comments that I made at the beginning, will it fix the problems that exist at the moment? In and of itself, it will not do that, but it sets the foundations for us to be able to do that. The work that is being done in policy areas is all about us pushing in the same direction to achieve the better health outcomes that we have set out.

You talked about what happens in other countries. We are looking at other places that have a completely different food culture to our own, but it is particularly difficult to change a food culture. When we look at the time that people have, we can see how that severely constrains how we eat together, for example. There are many shifts that need to happen, but we are in a strong position with the legislation that we have and the plan that we are proposing, which lay the right foundations for us to build on so that we can improve in the future and will help us to reach the ambitious outcomes that we all want.

I go back to the example that Elena Whitham used of what is happening in secondary schools, where we know that we have specific issues. Some of the work that FSS has done shows that the health of children who are at primary school is better than that of those who are at secondary school. How do we take those good examples that we have, build on them, share good practice and ensure that it is more widespread than just a one-off example? That is what this is all about.

You are absolutely right about food waste, which is an important issue—the levels of food waste are huge. The issue was raised during the passage of the Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Act 2024. Again, that highlights the importance of the work that is being done across the Government on the circular economy. I know that, in some areas, hospitals have centralised their units and removed kitchens but, in other areas, they are doing the complete opposite. It is about building on that good practice.

Ultimately, it will to be up to health boards and local authorities to set out how they will implement, monitor and achieve the outcomes to match the principles that have been set out clearly in the legislation. They will have a strong role in implementing that, consulting on it and ensuring that there is that wider buy-in to the approach that we have taken.

What you have outlined is, ideally, not what we want to see. We would prefer to see kitchens on site, whether in hospitals or in schools, and fresh produce using short, local supply chains. We probably have a shared vision of where we would like to be in that regard and, for me, it is about how we can deliver on those ambitions. I believe that the proposed plan and future iterations of it, as well as the plans of health boards and local authorities, will help us to deliver that.

A number of different areas touch on that issue both directly and indirectly. You touched on the internal market act. Initial concerns with that act were about the potential for it to constrain how we could develop policy, given the different nature of our landscape and our farming systems in Scotland and the potential impacts, which we could well see, of the direction of travel that was being taken in England.

Obviously, we do not have responsibility for trade, which impacts the flow of food in and out. Some of the trade deals that we have been signed up to could have an adverse impact on our agricultural sector and our producers. However, the plan touches on so many different areas of policy where the matter is also relevant, such as the cost of living crisis and the amount of money that people have, and we know about the links between deprivation and poor health outcomes—we do not have all the levers in relation to that. Obviously, we bring forward initiatives to try to act within the powers and the budgets that we do have but, of course, without all those levers, we will not be able to say absolutely that we can fix all those problems. It is important to set that out.

I hope that we are doing that with the outcomes that we have seen, the policies that are outlined and the actions that we are taking on that. It is also important—I think that we have referenced it in the plan—to look at all the different types of initiatives that are happening across Scotland. It comes back to the point about how we embed, develop and encourage wider good practice. We want to encourage and enable community-supported agriculture—allotments, community growing and some of the local initiatives that are happening in communities—as much as possible, so that we are getting those small local supply chains.

In my job, I see examples of such projects all the time, particularly in relation to the community right to buy. In city centres, I have visited groups that have taken on ownership of areas of ground, the food from which supplies the local community. Those projects are not only about food supply but about wider community engagement. Things that come off the back of that, such as cookery classes, lead to wider community cohesion.

However, the big suppliers and producers are also important. For me, it is not a case of big versus small. It is a question of ensuring that we encourage small producers. A lot of that comes back to what we are doing in relation to agricultural reform and how, through the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill, we can create more opportunities for people to own and access land and help new entrants to join the next generation of farmers. Through the work that is being done on public procurement, which is being driven through local authority plans and health board plans, we are helping to build and sustain strong local supply chains.

I think that that is fundamental to the whole plan. We are talking about food, and we need people to produce it. Everything hinges on our farmers and our fishermen. Ultimately, we want to support our primary producers to ensure that we maintain the food supply. That will help to sustain the local supply chains, which are the linchpin of what we are doing in policy development.

That goes back to some of Emma Harper’s points. As we work through our agricultural reform programme, we are considering what the future support system will look like and what support we will provide. The outcomes that are set out in the good food nation plan will all be part of that. You will see that agriculture is heavily referred to in the plan as it stands, because we all want people to have access to high-quality, healthy, nutritious food and we also talked about the importance of that during the passage of the Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Act 2024, because it all ties together.

That is an interesting question. The act says that we must consider the views of the food industry and I think it is important to hear all the voices. A wide variety of stakeholders have shared their views with the consultation or submitted evidence to the committee and they are all equally important to me. We must ensure that none of those voices feels that they have been drowned out and that everyone feels that they can get behind the plan.

I understand that there is criticism and that some people feel that there could be more in the plan or that we have not quite got it right first time. This is the first plan, but it is important to me that we have a balance and I would be interested to hear whether the committee thinks that it is not quite right or that there is more to consider.

I certainly feel that we have it right, but I am happy to reflect on the plan if others feel that the balance is not quite right. It is important that I do not engage with just one or two actors but ensure that I am hearing as representative a spectrum of views as possible.

I do not know whether Jules Goodlet-Rowley has anything to add from a health perspective, but I think that we are taking forward some important work in the population health framework and there is also the work that will be done through the diet and healthy weight delivery plan as well as the strong action that we are taking on alcohol. Therefore, I do not see any particularly overt influence affecting the plan as it stands, but I do not know whether Jules has anything to add on engagement.

There have been various iterations since the Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014, and further regulations and guidance have flowed from the act that are about embedding some of those values.

I do not know whether Jo Mitchell wants to add to that.

I recognise that there are concerns around that. We are waiting for further publication from our analytical colleagues, which will provide more information around the indicators and the framework, so I am happy to send that to the committee when that is available. We will be monitoring closely—we will have the indicators set out in the plan, which will help form the baseline of the monitoring framework that we establish.

Regarding the food commission’s capacity, it is not fully up and running yet. The commission has three members and a chair, but we are still in the midst of appointing a chief executive, and there will be a wider team to support the commission’s work, so it is not necessarily fair to write off the capacity that it will have just yet. As set out in the legislation, it will have an absolutely critical role and be able to offer advice to ministers. The review periods that we have set out and the scrutiny role that the commission will have mean that we will be very strongly held to account on the policies that we have set out in order to reach the outcomes. As part of that, if the policies are not working and not reaching those outcomes, we also have to set out what needs to change and which other pieces of work we will do.

We have been quite transparent that the monitoring framework is not perfect. We know that we have data gaps and areas that are missing, but we have highlighted those as areas that we will continue to work on. For example, we have asked the Scottish Animal Welfare Commission to do some work in relation to animal health and welfare, so that we know what the targets or indicators for those areas might look like. With any new information, we need to collect the data that enables us to monitor those areas. That is very much a work in progress, but we have been quite transparent about the work that needs to be done. We will be held to account and the monitoring will all be transparent.