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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 4 November 2025
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Displaying 2195 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I do not agree with your assertion that we are lagging behind the rest of the UK. Part of our process in developing future policy is the work that is being taken forward through the agricultural reform implementation and oversight board taking a co-development approach with the very people the policies will affect. That is why we have established the national test programme, which no doubt you will want to discuss later. It is important and vital that, in developing the future programmes for support, we are taking the approach of working with our stakeholders. That is also why we and the previous Cabinet Secretary for Rural Economy and Tourism committed to a period of stability and simplicity for the sector while we go through this period of transition. That has also been absolutely critical here.

You also asked about the further impact as we look at the resource spending review. The review and the medium-term financial strategy will build on last year’s five-year capital spending review. They will all come together to give a comprehensive picture of Scotland’s multiyear public spending plans. As the committee will be aware, the UK Government’s three-year spending review took place at the end of October last year, and it told us that, overall, the block grant is less than the current aggregate for 2021-22. That is why I said in my opening statement that this year’s budget has really been about those hard choices. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy has also been really clear about that.

As I have already said, even though we face hard choices, the budget that we have produced for this portfolio supports our agriculture, fisheries, and rural populations right across Scotland to recover from the twin crises that we are facing, as well as helping them to start their journey towards future transformation.

At the moment, it is not possible for me to predict the outcome of the resource spending review process, because it is a Government-wide exercise and it is currently out for consultation. Again, I come back to what I stated about the Government’s priorities. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy has outlined three key priority areas: to support progress towards meeting our child poverty targets, to address the climate change challenges that we face and to secure a stronger, fairer, greener economy. In order that we can do that, I have already committed to continuing with the pillar 1 direct payments and not lowering that basic payment scheme rate throughout the current parliamentary session. The pillar 2 payments include the reopening of the eighth round in 2022. We are further committed to developing future rounds up to and including 2024. I have already mentioned the national test programme.

We have worked hard towards the key priority areas that have been identified across the Government, and I feel that the budget that I have put forward and what I am proposing for the portfolio go a long way to achieving that.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

We try to engage with the UK Government on those matters as much as possible and we work as closely with it as possible. However, despite assurances that we would have discussions about future allocations of funding, those have yet to transpire. We have regular monthly meetings with the devolved Administrations and the UK Government at which we discuss a number of items of mutual interest across agriculture, marine policy and various other sectors. In spite of that, the meaningful discussions that we were assured would take place are yet to happen. However, we make representations repeatedly to the UK Government.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

As I said, there are a number of areas of spend in portfolios across Government that will impact on rural areas. An example of that is the spend on, and support for, the enterprise agencies, particularly South of Scotland Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise. The investment in those agencies is at the highest level that it has been since 2010-11. There is also funding for VisitScotland.

The funding for the three enterprise agencies and VisitScotland has been protected. That will be vital because the enterprise agencies provide advice, support and targeted funding opportunities across their areas, which helps small businesses to grow and develop, thereby creating jobs and, ultimately, sustaining our rural communities. Alongside supporting some of our more traditional rural businesses that are based in food and drink, tourism and the creative industries, they are promoting the growth of new, innovative rural growth industries, such as renewable energy and the space sector. They also have a critical role in helping us to achieve our net zero ambitions.

There are also significant contributions from other national programmes. An example is the green jobs fund, given the importance that the growth in the environment-related sector will have in rural areas. There is also the five-year place-based investment programme. Even though that is not directly within my portfolio, rural communities can be expected to benefit from that support.

You asked about where the decrease in funding from the UK Government has had an impact. You can see that impact in the replacement of EU funds. We were promised that they would be replaced in full, but that has not transpired. The European maritime and fisheries fund is an example that I have used previously. Just over £14 million has been identified to replace that fund, but our entitlement should have been in the region of £62 million. We also expect a shortfall of around £95 million in funding for agriculture up to 2025. If we had received what we were promised and the funds had been invested in fully, that would have enabled us to go further in our proposals.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Exactly.

I note that we are not subject to subsidy control. We are able to operate effectively under the trading co-operation agreement that is in place at the moment. Again, because of its very nature and the fact that we need those interventions, the situation with agriculture is very specific and separate to other subsidy control or state aid regimes. However, that is not to say that it is not monitored. As I said previously, we have the WTO agreement on agriculture. It is therefore simply not necessary for it to be caught by the bill. That is where it is frustrating, because, with that information so far not having been shared with us, it is hard to understand the rationale for its inclusion. We see no reason why it should be included when it is covered by those other schemes.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

There has been collaboration on the common frameworks. As I said, it is now up to the legislators to approve what has been set out. There has been collaboration there, which is why it is disappointing when we see pieces of legislation such as the 2020 act and the Subsidy Control Bill, because they undermine the process in which are all engaged in good faith.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

As I said, I believe that the process for engaging on the frameworks that have been published has already been set out. However, it will be up to the committee to determine how it undertakes that scrutiny. Obviously, I am willing to engage in that process with the committee. I want to be open and transparent and to work with you as much as possible. If you want to have a discussion about some of the frameworks that will be coming forward and how we will undertake that process—although some of that is for the committee to determine—I am more than open to engaging in that process with you.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

The evidence that we have has shown that there has been a dramatic drop. You will have heard a lot of that evidence articulated in the debate on labour shortages that took place yesterday. My rural affairs and islands role includes responsibility for the food and drink industry, which has been heavily affected by Brexit. You can see that there has been a massive shift and a drop in population in relation to the industry’s labour needs. There is no doubt that there have been dramatic changes there.

We have had to consider specific things that we can do within our own powers. Yesterday, I announced some of the rural visa pilots that we will consider. It is very frustrating that our labour needs and population needs tend to be ignored by the UK Government. A number of approaches have been made by me and by colleagues across Government to UK ministers in the Home Office, which have largely been ignored. I think that more than 19 attempts were made at the last count, whether by letter or otherwise, to address some of the issues that we are facing at the moment. There is a refusal to engage with us on some of the issues, unfortunately.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

They feel that the impacts are massive. I undertake extensive engagement with stakeholders across the piece, and labour is the issue that has been raised first and foremost above any others. A lot of businesses have been at crisis levels.

There is a fortnightly meeting with the food sector resilience group, at which we engage with our food and drink stakeholders. I understand, from hearing about some of the issues that have been experienced, that 63 per cent of seafood processors have experienced shortages and that some of them are up to 15 per cent down. I have heard story after story about various businesses losing out on multimillion-pound contracts purely because they were not able to fulfil the orders required of them, as they did not have the staff available to them.

There was also the announcement on Christmas eve about the seasonal agricultural workers scheme. Disappointingly, it will be tapered off over the course of the next few years, and that has been met with anger by many of our stakeholders and by NFU Scotland, who are seriously concerned about the impact of labour shortages on the sector.

Those are the issues that we continue to raise time after time with the UK Government, as shortages are at critical levels. I would be happy to check the figures on social care and tourism with colleagues who are responsible for those areas and to come back to the committee with further information as to the impacts there. As acute as the shortages are across the sectors for which I am responsible, there are acute shortages across the piece, which disproportionately impact our rural communities.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

That is not the case at all. We are looking at a number of employment initiatives. Of course we want to encourage people to work in these different sectors. The food and drink industry is such an exciting sector and there is so much that we can do to promote it as a career that our young people can engage with and get involved in.

A number of initiatives are working on that, and we are also looking at some initiatives to try to tackle depopulation. However, there is no getting away from the fact that, although we can do these things, they are medium to long-term interventions but the immediate critical issue is helping businesses to survive. That is what we need to address.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I will bring Jesus Gallego in on that point.