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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 June 2025
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Displaying 2050 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

We are not looking to stop legitimate movements of animals. However, we have a significant problem when it comes to the illegal trade of puppies, in particular, that come into the country. It is important that we get the balance of measures right. That is why we are in constant discussion with various animal welfare organisations, the British Veterinary Association and the Scottish Animal Welfare Commission to look at the proposals. I think that what is proposed will significantly impact the illegal trade, which is what we want to clamp down on.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

That is what the bill gives effect to—it gives us the power to make further regulations should we want to make changes to animal transport legislation. Again, however, given the nature of movements of livestock, in particular, throughout GB, it makes sense for us to discuss it with other Administrations if we are to make changes.

We consulted on the issue early in the year, and we recently published the response to that consultation. However, if we are going to make any changes to animal transport, we will also consult on any proposals that come forward, because we want to ensure that we do not disadvantage those who live in our remote and island communities when it comes to animal movements.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

I believe that the draft standards that are being proposed are due to go out to consultation shortly. I am not aware of those concerns—they have not been raised directly with me—but Andrew Voas might have more information on them or on whether they have been raised with officials.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

An awful lot of work has had to be undertaken very quickly since we left the EU. As I said, in effect, this Scottish statutory instrument puts into legislation what has been happening in practice with the checks at the place of destination. That is why it is being brought forward now.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

I cannot give you a definitive answer on that today, but I am happy to come back to you with further information.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

Yes.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

Consultation was done on a GB basis. From what I understand, NFU Scotland was the only Scottish stakeholder to take part in that consultation. It commented that the proposals made sense. However, I think that there had been other opinions within that consultation—from the British Egg Industry Council, I believe. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs had held a round table.

I pass the question to officials, who can give more information about comments on the proposals.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

Because we do not need the powers in the bill to give effect to that in Scotland. It is not that we are not going to do it; we have the powers to do it already, and SAWC is looking at the matter. It makes sense to look at its work on the issue before we take anything forward.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

It will help in a number of ways. You gave the example of how a minibus might be full of animals, depending on the number of individuals who are in it. That would not be possible any more. There would be a maximum of five animals per vehicle, regardless of the number of individuals. That would have a significant impact.

We will also see changes when the regulations are implemented. One of the biggest and most positive changes will be the ability to introduce an age limit for movement. We might be able to prevent the import of dogs who are less than six months old. We think that that would significantly impact the trade, as would the proposals that are subject to future regulations and deal with moving heavily pregnant dogs. The combination of all those measures will, I hope, put a stop to that trade, although there are elements that we will have to keep a close eye on.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill

Meeting date: 17 November 2021

Mairi Gougeon

Thank you, convener. I am delighted to be before the committee to discuss the LCM, to give effect in Scotland to some of the clauses of the bill.

The bill will make provision for the welfare of certain kept animals that are in, imported into or exported from Great Britain. The Scottish Government proposes legislative consent for the clauses that are related to prohibiting the export of animals for slaughter and fattening, animal welfare and retained direct European Union legislation, and the importation of dogs, cats and ferrets. It also proposes consent on amendments to the licensing of zoos in Great Britain.

The provisions of the bill that do not extend to Scotland relate to the keeping, selling and breeding of primates and the offence of livestock worrying. The Scottish Government has the devolved power to legislate for the welfare of primates through secondary legislation, and the Scottish Parliament has already legislated to improve the protection of livestock in relation to incidents of worrying through its support of the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2021, which came into force on 5 November.

The Scottish Government recently committed to working with the other United Kingdom Administrations to seek to end the unnecessary long-distance transport of animals for fattening or slaughter outside the UK. The bill provides an opportunity to have consistent control over such exports and to assist enforcement agencies to ensure that such unnecessary movements no longer take place.

The bill makes provision for prohibiting or regulating the movement of animals into Scotland for the purpose of protecting animal welfare or animal health. Committee members will be all too aware that the importation of animals—puppies, in particular—involves widespread suffering and illegality. Puppies are frequently imported with fraudulent paperwork, underage and unvaccinated, before being transported and sold to unsuspecting buyers in Great Britain by dealers who illegally pose as home breeders. Reducing the number of pet animals that can be imported by individuals, along with restrictions on the import of young animals or those in late pregnancy, will significantly help to address those issues. The measures have been called for by many of the main animal welfare organisations, and the Scottish Government supports their introduction.

There are also concerns about the growing number of dogs that are being imported with cropped ears and other unnecessary and cruel mutilations that are not legal in the UK. The bill seeks to address those concerns.

The licensing of zoos has been applied consistently across Great Britain for many years, more recently under the provisions of the Zoo Licensing Act 1981. That consistent approach has worked well to protect animals that are kept in zoos, and I would like that approach to continue.

The proposed amendments to the 1981 act seek to introduce more meaningful conservation, education and research activities for all licensed zoos, through improved standards for modern zoo practice that have been developed by the Zoos Expert Committee. That will greatly improve the knowledge base in relation to many animals and contribute to their future care.

The Scottish Government fully recognises that for the measures in the bill to be successful, it must be introduced consistently across Great Britain to avoid unscrupulous importers and exporters seeking to change their point of entry or exit in an attempt to exploit any inconsistencies between Administrations, which they no doubt would seek to do, considering the high value of puppies and certain breeds of dog.

Consistent legislative measures across GB will also greatly assist when it comes to the interpretation and enforcement of new controls. A co-ordinated GB-wide approach to tackling the issues that are covered by the bill is widely supported and welcomed by many key stakeholders.

I am strongly of the view that allowing the UK Parliament to legislate for all GB Administrations in those areas is the most timely, efficient and effective way to achieve those important changes.