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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 June 2025
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Displaying 2050 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

That discussion will be familiar to Rhoda Grant and me, particularly through the consideration of the Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Act 2024, which was passed before the summer last year. Definitions of “sustainable and regenerative agriculture” were raised during evidence sessions on that bill. That is why we set out as part of that bill, which is now an act, that we would bring forward a code of practice on sustainable and regenerative agriculture, because it includes a wide variety—a basket—of measures that can be used.

An awful lot of work is being undertaken on producing that code and the various iterations of consultation that have been under way before it is due to be published. I appreciate that there is no definitive definition of “sustainable and regenerative”, but that is the specific reason why. A basket of measures is included that can look different in different pieces of land and in different farming systems across Scotland. That is why we developed the term in the way that we did for the 2024 act and why we are taking the work forward in that way.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

We would have to consider whether it was necessary for the bill to refer to the code of practice. Again, that work is largely being taken forward through the agricultural reform programme.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

That largely comes down to the engagement that took place with small landholders and how they wanted to proceed. The legislation needs to be modernised, but what we produced and proposed was largely based on small landholders’ suggestions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

That is the thing. As Fiona Leslie outlined in her earlier responses, some small landholders might have wanted to do that or, at least, would have liked it to be considered. Fiona took part in direct discussions with small landholders. In broad terms, that was the direction of travel that they wanted to go in. Is that correct?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I hope that he can help, if I cannot.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I have referred to the public interest test. The key question is about increasing diversity in land supply. Will the provisions be positive for the community, and will they improve community sustainability? We have had to frame our consideration in that way, because certain conditions must be met when a public interest test is introduced. It is important that considerations are about the evidence, the basis of what we are doing, the proportionality of what we are introducing and the aim of the measure. That is why the test will apply at that point, rather than conditions or obligations being put on a future buyer.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

Ultimately, the bill is about increasing diversity in land ownership.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

We are listening to concerns that have been expressed about the potential for that. The only provision that we have at the moment is that, if land were to be lotted, a person could not buy multiple lots. We must be alive to potential loopholes—we want to avoid them wherever possible. We might need to take other factors into consideration, because we want to ensure that the measures that we introduce have the intended effect.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

We are considering that as well. I recognise that it came through quite strongly that going to the tenant farming commissioner to appoint a valuer should be the next option and not necessarily the place to start.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

As I said, work has been done on that and it will inform future guidance, which is the place to deal with that.