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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 August 2025
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Displaying 2119 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I am sorry, but I do not really understand what point you are trying to get to.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

If the instrument were to be annulled, we would not have the closure in place, and the protections for spawning cod that have been in place since 14 February would be removed.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

We could see an increase in activity by creelers, and in relation to nephrops and scallops as a result of the reopening of the area.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

As Allan Gibb alluded, the committee has probably been able, through this discussion, to see the sheer range of views and the competing and complex issues that we have to balance when we take such decisions. What Allan has just set out about moving forward and about where that step change is needed is critical. Today, we are looking at one difficult area, and there will be more to come in the various other measures that we are looking to introduce. Getting the foundations for such decisions right will be critical.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I will reiterate some of what I have said throughout the meeting. The committee has heard from a cross-section of stakeholders and has heard a diverse range of views. I have already talked about the complexity of the issue; the evidence that you have heard outlines that.

It is a difficult situation to find a solution to; in this case, it is impossible to find one that would make everyone equally happy. As the cabinet secretary who is responsible for fisheries management and protection, it is my job—as I outlined in response to Jim Fairlie’s question—to take on board and try, no matter how well-intentioned they are, to balance all the competing interests.

Rachael Hamilton talked about some of the comments that I made in response to Jackson Carlaw’s parliamentary question last week. In that response, I said:

“Responsible fisheries management means ensuring that we get the right balance between socioeconomic and environmental outcomes.”—[Official Report, 3 March 2020; c 60.]

In this case, we have done that by increasing protections for spawning cod while also ensuring that fishing can continue to take place in surrounding areas.

The committee has also heard a variety of scientific opinions about what constitutes protection. However, on the advice of Dr Needle, who is the chief fisheries adviser for Scotland, we are applying the precautionary approach and minimising disturbance of the sea bed during the spawning period in the known spawning area. That is the fundamental objective and it is important that we not lose sight of it.

As I said in my opening comments and have said throughout the meeting, the process that led up to the SSI being laid before the committee was by no means ideal, but I firmly stand by the closure decision and believe that we are doing the right thing to contribute to protection of spawning cod.

I have outlined the next steps that Marine Scotland will take. Allan Gibb also talked about monitoring and compliance. We will meet stakeholders after the closure ends this year to hear their thoughts on how it has worked. As we also said, we will look to learn lessons on how the processes can be improved. However, ensuring that the closure was in place from 14 February until the end of April was the right decision and was our number 1 priority.

I hope that Rachael Hamilton will consider not moving her motion and, failing that, that the committee will not support it.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I have covered a lot of these comments in my previous remarks. I understand where Mercedes Villalba is coming from in relation to some of her points. However, I re-emphasise the point that agreeing to the motion to annul the instrument that is before the committee today would remove all protections.

I recognise members’ points about the process. As I have said previously, we absolutely want to ensure that we learn lessons from this.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Of course, we would not want to do that, but that is essentially what the committee would allow to happen if the SSI were annulled. If more work was to be done, that would take time, during which the protection would not be in place. That would be during spawning time, which is a short window.

I have covered the other issues in my previous remarks, so I draw to a close in highlighting that aspect to the committee.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

The decision is based on the best available scientific evidence. In the time that was available, it would not have been possible to conduct all the scientific research to fill the gaps that have been identified while ensuring that the SSI was in place to provide protections for the spawning period. We have based the decision on the best available scientific evidence and research.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I think that the ultimate consequences of not basing decisions on the best possible evidence would be that you could take the wrong decisions. If we do not take the precautionary approach, we could end up doing more harm than good to the stock.

I missed the first part of your question. Was it about the methodology?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Are you talking about the methodology on which we have based these decisions and the views of other bodies in relation to that?