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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 3 November 2025
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Displaying 2195 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I believe that a date for stage 3 has been set, and it will allow for what you have suggested to happen. Of course, I have committed to discussing the matter with members, and I have also made a commitment to dealing conclusively with it by the end of the bill process. Members have put forward a variety of options and I am keen to have that discussion.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I will address Rhoda Grant’s amendments 8 and 22 first. As she said, they are modelled on the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014, which sets out a similar requirement. However, the legislative landscape is now different. We have committed to incorporating human rights treaties in domestic law, and a human rights bill will be introduced in the current parliamentary session. That bill will give effect to a wide range of internationally recognised human rights—including the right to adequate food, as part of the overall right to an adequate standard of living—under Scots law, as far as that is possible within devolved competence.

The Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill also contains provisions that require the Scottish ministers to have regard to the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, and other specified provisions in international human rights instruments, in preparing their national good food nation plan.

Therefore, the aims of Rhoda Grant’s amendments are already achieved by provisions in the bill. The human rights bill is the appropriate place to address the complex interrelationships between rights and obligations across four treaties in a single, coherent and integrated framework, so I strongly urge the committee not to support amendments 8 and 22.

Beatrice Wishart’s amendment 41 would require the Scottish ministers to “act in accordance with” the international instruments that are listed in section 3 rather than to “have regard to” them. The Government considers that the appropriate legal duty is to “have regard to” them. A duty to act in accordance with such an instrument would be more appropriate for guidance that sets out how a function is to be carried out. Therefore, it would not be appropriate, in the context of this bill, to include a requirement to act in accordance with those international instruments, as that could be tantamount to incorporation.

The Scottish Government is committed to the incorporation of a wide range of internationally recognised human rights in the upcoming human rights bill. That is the right place for this issue to be considered, in order to ensure that we create a coherent rights framework that avoids fragmentation of rights and inconsistent mechanisms for the enforcement of them. It is equally important not to cut across the on-going work that we are doing on UNCRC incorporation. We remain committed to the incorporation of the UNCRC to the maximum extent possible as soon as that is practicable. I consider that “have regard to” is the most appropriate legal duty. It is a meaningful legal text that can be and has been enforced through the courts, as I have touched on in previous comments.

Beatrice Wishart’s amendment 42 would add general comment 12, on the right to adequate food, to the list in section 3 that, as the bill is currently drafted, the Scottish ministers need to have regard to—or, as amendment 41 proposes, act in accordance with. General comments are not legally binding in international law and, although they can provide useful guidance, they are not drafted with the particular Scottish context in mind. That means that there should not be a requirement for them to be followed in this bill. The upcoming human rights bill will consider the role of general comments in interpreting these international human rights standards as part of a coherent rights framework. Therefore, I strongly urge the committee not to support amendments 41 and 42.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Islands (Scotland) Act 2018: Islands Plan Annual Report

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Finding affordable housing is increasingly an issue for people who live in our island communities. I do not know whether the officials who are here today have any further information on that, but, again, I would be happy to raise the topic with my Cabinet colleagues and get back to the member and the committee with further information and more detail. I do not have the figures in front of me.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Islands (Scotland) Act 2018: Islands Plan Annual Report

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Mairi Gougeon

The islands team will not have done that. I would have to check with housing colleagues about whether they have undertaken such a piece of work.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Islands (Scotland) Act 2018: Islands Plan Annual Report

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Mairi Gougeon

It is really important that we learn from previous rounds of funding as well as consider what is in the annual report, but it will feed into how we shape funds in the future.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Islands (Scotland) Act 2018: Islands Plan Annual Report

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I am absolutely open to considering that. Obviously, I want to listen to island communities as we develop proposals. One of our key commitments is to develop a remote, rural and islands housing action plan. I cannot yet give a definitive date when that will be published—it is led by my Cabinet colleague Shona Robison—but that will be critical in trying to address some of the issues.

You talked about travelling around the islands. Whenever I am out in our rural and island communities, housing is raised as being critical to the ability to retain young working-age people in a community. It is not always a case of a lack of jobs. There can be job opportunities but the ability to house people is frequently raised as a critical issue.

I believe that engagement work in relation to the action plan has commenced but I would be more than happy to feed back the information that you give to ensure that it is part of the process, too. There will be extensive engagement with our island communities so that they can be part of it.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Islands (Scotland) Act 2018: Islands Plan Annual Report

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Mairi Gougeon

It has had a massive impact on all the areas in my portfolio, so I see it at first hand and hear it in my engagement with different communities and businesses. As you outlined, a lot of the industries on our islands have been those most adversely affected, which means it probably disproportionately affects our islands more than other areas.

Tourism was affected by the impact of Covid but also by the critical labour shortages right across the piece. Those shortages in tourism itself and right through our food and drink businesses have also meant that those sectors have really struggled and are continuing to struggle. Those shortages are because of losing the free movement of people and the additional barriers to businesses in trading with the EU, which have made it a lot more difficult because of the added layers of bureaucracy and the extra costs that businesses have to incur. All of that has undoubtedly had a huge impact across the food and drink industries, of which there are a lot in our rural and island communities.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Islands (Scotland) Act 2018: Islands Plan Annual Report

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Mairi Gougeon

We have seen escalating costs for a while, and that is getting worse rather than better. It has had a disproportionate effect on our island communities because there are extra costs for transport to get the materials to islands before projects can even begin. That means that our islands already have an extra financial burden that areas on the mainland do not, so increased costs are a problem.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Islands (Scotland) Act 2018: Islands Plan Annual Report

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Mairi Gougeon

That is a really important point and something that we need to consider. Especially now that more people are working from home, we want to encourage people to embrace hybrid working as well.

I do not know whether there is a specific strand of work on-going in relation to that at the moment. Erica Clarkson can come in on that.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Islands (Scotland) Act 2018: Islands Plan Annual Report

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I will have to turn to officials on that. I am not sure exactly what stage that work is at.