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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 August 2025
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Displaying 2121 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Draft Joint Fisheries Statement

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I hope that you will have seen the plans set out in the JFS. We have tried to focus on stocks that are of commercial interest to our industry in Scotland, and we also wanted to put our initial focus on developing FMPs for stocks on which we already knew much of the detail. That is not to say that there will be no further iterations of fisheries management plans or any more plans beyond 2022, but I think that we have put our initial focus on the right place.

I know that plans proposed by other administrations cover non-quota stocks. We will of course be monitoring the development of that work, but it is far more complex. I think that our initial focus is the right one, but Paul McCarthy and Allan Gibb might want to elaborate on some of the issues that might arise if we were to focus on other areas.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Draft Joint Fisheries Statement

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

We will have to examine that and keep it under review. We provide resources to our regional inshore fisheries groups to enable them to operate. By their nature, they bring together fisheries interests and people who have not traditionally been represented by other organisations, because they are smaller businesses. We have tried to develop those fora to enable them and give them the capacity to engage, but if any issues emerged with capacity and resources, we would monitor the situation. However, I hope that those groups will play a part in the process, along with our other stakeholders.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Draft Joint Fisheries Statement

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Hopefully, they should all work together well in terms of meeting the overall objectives. We have the overall framework which, unlike other frameworks that I know that the committee will be considering, predates those other elements, as I outlined in my opening statement, which is why it is almost split into two parts. We have the joint fisheries statement, which sets out the overall policy ambitions that all the administrations would look to achieve as part of the framework, and we have the memorandum of understanding, which goes through the day-to-day elements of how the administrations would work together and resolve any conflicts that might arise. The memorandum of understanding also contains the operational agreements, which concern some of the more day-to-day technical issues that we would look to align on. Together, that is quite a cohesive package of measures that should enable us to work together in a positive way.

As I said at the start of the session, the fact that the four Administrations have agreed the overarching ambitions that are set out in the JFS and are aligned on them is positive. That shows that we can work together effectively in areas such as these while respecting devolved competences.

11:30  

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Draft Joint Fisheries Statement

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I do not think that the UK Government itself has thought through how the Fisheries Act 2020, the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 and the Subsidy Control Bill will all work together or align. The full ramifications of fisheries and aquaculture coming within the bill’s overall remit have not been made clear to us, and we need that further guidance so that we can see how that legislation will work in practice. However, from what we have seen so far, full consideration has not been given to the interaction between these key pieces of legislation.

I do not know whether Paul McCarthy or Allan Gibb would like to elaborate.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Draft Joint Fisheries Statement

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

We have a strong leading role at the moment in international negotiations. I will hand over to Allan Gibb in a second so that he can provide more detail on that, given that he takes the lead and can provide more information.

Given the size of the marine area that we have, it is only fair that we would have an important role when it comes to international negotiations, and we are the joint heads of delegation when it comes to specific stocks. I will hand over to Allan Gibb on that point, as he can provide more detail of how things work.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Draft Joint Fisheries Statement

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

To touch on one of the points that Allan Gibb has made, there are occasionally issues that we must escalate, but it works well in general.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Draft Joint Fisheries Statement

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

You are absolutely right: it is critical that we ensure that we hear those voices. That is referenced throughout the JFS, which is always looking to consider the impact that decisions will have, not just on immediate stakeholders but on our wider communities. We want to make sure that engagement is as transparent, open and inclusive as it can be.

Of course, there are lots of complex issues to balance within that, and ultimately we want to make sure that we have a healthy marine environment and a profitable fishing industry that provides a sustainable source of protein, which is vital for our diet. We need to get the balance right between all the different considerations. However, you are absolutely right—we want the people who are most impacted by the decisions that we make to be part of the process and we want to work with them.

As I highlighted in my previous responses, we have a strong track record of co-management and engagement with stakeholders. We have a variety of forums in which we engage with stakeholders but, as I have also said, it is important that we do not just consider them in silos. This is about bringing our stakeholders together to find a way forward through the complex issues that we face, and to discuss the other challenging decisions that we will no doubt face, as we go into the future.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Draft Joint Fisheries Statement

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Yes, it would be adhered to. That measure is more about efficiency. It is important to remember that the framework includes a memorandum of understanding, which determines how we would address any potential conflicts or issues and the stage at which those would be dealt with. However, we do not anticipate that being an issue. As I said, the matter was subject to a lot of discussion when the LCM was considered.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Draft Joint Fisheries Statement

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I hope that I was able to explain in my previous response, even partially, how the regional inshore fisheries groups have come together. That was a means of trying to engage with fishers who have been hard to reach. It is vital that we have been able to do that work and that we established that network.

We covered stakeholder engagement a couple of weeks ago when I was at the committee talking about the co-management processes that we want and the people with whom we want to engage. Rather than their being in silos, this is about how we can bring our stakeholders together and collaborate. We are giving that active consideration. The issue is out for consultation at the moment, as are our other policies, which I hope all stakeholders will engage with. I am happy to take any feedback about the processes or any thoughts that stakeholders have about how those processes might be improved for the future.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Draft Joint Fisheries Statement

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Of course, that is something that has to be managed. As I said, challenging timescales have been set out for the FMPs in the JFS. Trying to meet those timescales is important, because that is what has been set out in the legislation, but we want to make sure, when we are creating the FMPs, that we are getting that right, that it is not rushed and that we are able to undertake that work in the way that we wish to.