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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 25 August 2025
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Displaying 2121 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 5 October 2022

Mairi Gougeon

First of all, I note that those in our islands team are predominantly based on islands and live within those communities, so they are tuned in to that feedback. George Burgess has made that point to the committee previously. I think that everyone on the islands programme investment panel has had experience of either living or working on islands. That is really important.

It is vital that we do what we can to hear the different voices that are out there. If the committee feels that that is not being done adequately and has any suggestions about how we do that better, I would be more than happy to take away that feedback and learning.

Alasdair Allan makes a good point, and I go back to the point that I made in response to Jenni Minto’s questions. We want the projects that are delivered to have an impact on communities and to grow organically, and we want to work alongside communities in delivering them. I hope that we are getting at least some of that right, but I am more than happy to hear from the committee on that issue.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 5 October 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I am really sympathetic to the points that were made by local authorities last week, because I recognise how challenging that can be. In my portfolio, we will aim to make the processes for the various funding schemes as clear as possible and not too cumbersome for local authorities. As I said in relation to the islands programme, we want to work with local authorities and, through partners such as the SFT, ensure that they have the capacity that is needed. I am more than happy to take away that feedback.

However, things are sometimes outwith our control. For example, the UK Government’s levelling-up fund cut across the islands programme when applications were being made. We have also seen that in the marine space. Even though that is a devolved area, the UK Government has provided £100 million of direct spend without—

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 5 October 2022

Mairi Gougeon

We have taken different approaches to other funds that we have run. Previously, there were three separate strands to the islands programme, which were allocated in a number of different ways. It is important that we take the learning from that. I know that there are other funds that are directly available for communities to bid straight into. I think that it depends on the fund and its objectives. There are other programmes, such as the one that we have just done, whereby the local authority is the lead partner.

It is important to have that mix. We certainly do not want to cut people out of the process. We want to make sure that the projects that come forward are ones that will genuinely provide what communities need. It is not for us to dictate to communities what infrastructure they need. All our island communities are unique and different in their own way. Some of the challenges that they face are similar, but some are different. Therefore, it is really important that the projects that are brought forward are organic and come from communities.

I really value the feedback that we get and the learning that we have taken from the previous rounds of the programme, as that will enable us to ensure that, when we bring forward future years of funding, we deliver it in a way that works—most importantly, for our island communities. Our approach is not set in stone. The evidence that the committee took was important. It is important for me to hear about how communities found the process so that we can take that learning into future years.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 5 October 2022

Mairi Gougeon

That was another point that I took away from the committee’s evidence session last week. I understand the pressures that local authorities are under in that regard. The committee also heard about how the variety of funds that are out there can be a challenge in and of itself.

However, working with the Scottish Futures Trust has been helpful in that regard, too. We wanted to work with the SFT on the latest round of funding because of its experience and expertise in delivering infrastructure and working with partners. It was really good to hear the feedback last week about the advice and assistance that local authorities have been able to get from the SFT. That was really important. We are happy to work with local authorities on capacity issues, because we recognise the challenges that can exist in that regard.

I come back to the point about why we selected the model that was used for the regeneration capital grant fund. We wanted to ensure that the process was not completely alien to, or overly burdensome on, local authorities. We took that approach because we hoped that that would make things a bit easier. However, I recognise the challenges that were mentioned last week. Such feedback is really important.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 5 October 2022

Mairi Gougeon

It adds to the cluttered landscape and it cuts across some of the objectives that we would like to achieve. Among the different pots of funding, the prioritisation can be completely different. When we were members of the EU, the Highlands and Islands was a high-priority area for funding due to its remote and rural nature and the specific challenges that our rural communities face. That area was a high priority when we were in the EU, but it is certainly not as high a priority if you look at spending through the shared prosperity fund. Those allocations all fell far short of what we should and would have received were we still members of the EU. Fisheries is a devolved area, so if there is money there, it should be given to the Scottish Government to distribute in line with our own funding priorities.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 5 October 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Yes, I have. I make regular representations to my counterparts in the UK Government, as do other ministers. I think that the Minister for Business, Trade, Tourism and Enterprise has been dealing with that in relation to the shared prosperity funding. We regularly make those representations.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 5 October 2022

Mairi Gougeon

If we look at agriculture as an example of this—indeed, the term “agflation” has been used—we will see a tremendous increase in input costs across the bit, whether for feed, fuel or fertiliser. For some of those areas, it is not possible for us to make meaningful interventions, because the main levers rest with the UK Government. We have tried to do what we can, both within the portfolio and across the Scottish Government, to mitigate those pressures, but, without those full powers, I am unable to do everything. It is just not possible to take the meaningful action that we know is needed. Obviously, we welcome the package that the UK Government has introduced—that is, the package of energy reliefs—but, unfortunately, it is for only six months. We do not know what is going to happen after that, which will be of little comfort to those who are really struggling at the moment.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 5 October 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Yes, that is why it is not possible for us to do that. We get indicative allocations.

I should make it clear that what we see through the capital and resource spending reviews are not budgets; those figures are based on a number of assumptions, and we still have to go through the normal annual budget cycles. I should also emphasise that we do not have any clarity on funding beyond 2025; it is therefore not possible for us to plan in detail beyond that point, because we do not know what our allocations will be. What we have set out in the capital and resource spending reviews are the overall funding envelopes, but we will still have to work through the detail when we know what the actual allocations will be.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 5 October 2022

Mairi Gougeon

It was interesting to go through the evidence that the committee heard last week. We ran the competitive model for funding this year and the direct allocation process the year before. It is important for us to hear feedback and find out how local authorities are finding the process.

As with anything, there are pros and cons to both approaches, but it is all learning that we can take forward as we look to develop the islands programme in future years. I know that some local authorities will probably have received less through the competitive process than they would have received through the direct allocation process, whereas other local authorities will have received more. In some instances, it was quite a significant chunk of funding. Orkney Islands Council, for example, was allocated £1.5 million, which was over and above what it would have received through a direct allocation model. It is important for us to listen to the feedback to determine how we take the programme forward.

We decided to go with the competitive funding model this year to ensure that we delivered the funding as effectively and efficiently as we could within the available timescale. I know from evidence that the committee has heard that there were concerns about the local government elections, but we want to ensure that there is enough time to develop bids and that those bids are going to be successful and deliverable in the timescale to which we are working.

The model that we are using was built on the model for the regeneration capital grant fund, with which local authorities are familiar. That is why we adopted it. However, it is important that we take this learning into future years.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 5 October 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I would not want anyone to think that the work that has been undertaken in relation to those projects has been wasted. I do not underestimate for a moment how much work goes into preparing and submitting such bids. There were various issues around that, which the committee heard about last week.

One of the key aspects of our work with the SFT has been ensuring that there is on-going dialogue to see how we can get bids that were not successful this time into a position whereby they could potentially be successful in future rounds of the programme. It is important that we continue that work and that dialogue.