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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 June 2025
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Displaying 2050 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

We have had to introduce the provision as it is because of what must be taken into consideration in the public interest, our direction of how that is used and why the measure is proportionate in respect of what we are talking about.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

We will, of course, listen to all the views that have been expressed to the committee. It all comes back to the idea that you can meet the Government’s objectives only if you are doing things at scale, which is not necessarily helpful. I have visited various estates and seen incredible work being done, but I see the same when I visit smaller landholdings. I do not think that it necessarily needs to be one or the other in order to meet the Government’s objectives—indeed, I do not think that that is the case elsewhere, when we consider international comparisons.

We recognise the role and importance of private investment, because the public purse will never have enough funding to enable all the activity that we need to see to meet our climate and nature targets. However, we must try to tackle the issues that we have with the scale and concentration of land ownership, and the impact that that has on communities. Via the measures in the bill, we have proposed a way to try to address the issues, and that is what is important.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I will bring in Andy Proudfoot.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

Quite a few people who have given evidence to the committee have raised that issue. I think that I touched on this in a previous response, but, ultimately, the role is proposed in this way to provide for separation between the commission’s regulatory and advisory roles.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

Yes, I am happy to do that, and I will bring in Andy Proudfoot to provide more detail. I believe that some of the costs and ranges in the policy document are based on the detailed work that some public agencies undertake in relation to land management plans and their costs.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I think that Andy wants to come in.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

There are a number of points within that. Essentially, it is all of that. Looking at the initial aims of the bill, the first is ultimately about transparency around land ownership and management, involving communities in the decisions that are taken in relation to land—that is where the community engagement provisions around land management plans come in—and encouraging dialogue between landowners and communities. It is about ensuring that there are other opportunities for communities to take on ownership of more land across Scotland, as well as increasing the land supply and encouraging wider diversification of ownership.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I am confident about the measures that we are bringing forward. I know that a number of views were expressed when the committee took evidence. Again, we are considering all of that but, ultimately, this is about creating more fairness in the processes and provisions that we are introducing.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I completely appreciate and agree with your point, but we need to make sure that the proposals that we introduce are evidenced, so that they stand up to scrutiny. I am not averse to considering that point, but we would have to give greater thought to how that might work and what the evidence base for that might be. I understand the concerns that were raised in evidence in relation to that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I have listened to the evidence on that. First of all, the land management plans and the local place plans have different aims, so they have different purposes. My concern is that local place plans are not universal. I think that a review is due to be undertaken this year—I am sure that Andy Proudfoot will correct me if I am wrong—in relation to how local place plans are operating. It makes sense for that to be considered through the land management process, but I would be reluctant to introduce that into the primary legislation. Given the different nature of the plans, perhaps that is more appropriately addressed in secondary legislation or guidance. However, it makes sense for there to be some consideration of that because local place plans are important in identifying the local communities’ needs.