Seòmar agus comataidhean

There is nothing odd about you, Graham.

I think that it probably would be easy to set up an app. My question is about proposed section 14(1)(b), which relates to

“reporting any incident of unlawful disposal of waste.”

You have said that an app could be a one-size-fits-all solution, but would it take into account that different local authorities have different set-ups in relation to their staffing teams, as you will appreciate given your background in local government? Would it be as easy as you are suggesting?

Your point about information was well made. You might be familiar with the PickupMyPeriod app, which works nationally but is much more about providing information about the different public buildings where people can collect free period products. It is easier to keep that app up to date because it is based on location.

Are you concerned that including the provision on reporting could raise public expectations about getting a response to such reports? Would the response come nationally, or would it be for the local authority to respond?

I am grateful to Maurice Golden for securing the important and timely debate and I congratulate Gillian Martin on her reappointment to the Government in the important role of Minister for Climate Action. I hope that, when we leave the chamber after the debate, we will all have a sense that we can work together; that the minister has said that her door is open and that good ideas from across the chamber can make their way to the Cabinet table.

Five years ago today, the Scottish Government was absolutely right to come to the chamber and declare a climate emergency. Scotland’s climate targets were achievable and they were ambitious, and we should not apologise for ambition. However, somehow—I do not have all the answers—the Government has struggled to focus on delivery and implementation and to get the right action in place at the right time. That is a real shame and a missed opportunity, because if we had got it right or it had been done a lot better, millions of Scots could have had the benefit of warmer homes, cheaper bills, better public transport, well-paid green jobs and a healthier, cleaner environment. That is what my constituents across Central Scotland want, and I think that that is what everyone in Scotland wants. That is why it is really important that the Net Zero, Energy and Climate Change Committee established the climate change people’s panel.

We often hear in the Parliament that we have to take people with us and on a journey. People already know the science. The good people of Scotland know what needs to be done, and they want us to find a way to get on and do it, so if we can knock heads together and have a group hug, let us do that. It is not about the demise of the Bute house agreement, as sad as that may be for those who were involved: we are talking about the demise of the planet and of people’s jobs and their health. Let us make just transition for workers and communities a reality and get on with it.

We have received some helpful briefings for the debate. I thank Oxfam, Friends of the Earth Scotland and the Existing Homes Alliance. The Climate Change Committee has sent an important letter to the Cabinet Secretary for Net Zero and Energy, which I expect has reinforced what has been said in the debate. I will quote Professor Piers Forster, the interim chair of the CCC, who said:

“It is deeply disappointing that the Scottish Government has decided to withdraw its 2030 and 2040 interim targets. When set, these represented an ambitious commitment to the pace of decarbonisation in Scotland; however, the Scottish Government’s development and implementation of plans were too slow, and action has not kept pace with this ambition.”

However, it is not too late to get it right. We have had passionate contributions in the debate and I can draw examples of that from across the chamber. I think that Mr Ewing has left his seat, but there are other examples of colleagues working across party divides. I have worked with Mr Ewing on solar energy; Maurice Golden on the circular economy; colleagues on the Green benches on my ecocide proposals; the Lib Dems on measures to protect our oceans and rivers from pollution; and Ash Regan in the Alba Party on its ambitions for a just transition for the workers and communities in Grangemouth—an issue that I know Stephen Kerr also cares about.

We can work together when we take the personal attacks out of it. There is no Government in the world that is doing enough. Collectively, members of the Parliament have good intentions, but we have to create the space and time in how we do our politics so that we focus on action. I thank Lorna Slater for her time and effort and the respect that she showed me during her time in the Government when we worked together on my proposals for ecocide law, and I hope that I can work with Gillian Martin and others on that.

I will end by saying that my constituents in Central Scotland do not want me to come into the chamber and critique colleagues, making it personal. It is not about the character of the individuals who are sitting on the seats, but it is very much about what we do and the action that we take. Let us focus on that as we go forward.

To fill in the blank space on that missing page, would Bob Doris agree that the people’s panel on climate change made a really important recommendation about the importance of climate hubs and the need to make such investment locally? That would help with wider engagement, which Bob Doris referred to.

Has the minister had a chance, yet, to look at the green heat finance task force’s recommendations on developing financing mechanisms so that warm, healthy, zero-emission homes are affordable to everyone?

I am loving Graham Simpson’s enthusiasm for Clare Adamson’s amendment. I recognise Clare’s long-standing work on health and safety matters. We did not find out whether our deputy convener managed to get his iron repaired, which was a feature of the stage 1 debate. He will be glad that I have reminded him of that.

There is a really important link between repair, safety and just transition. If we are going to get it right on repair, reuse and so on, we need to remember that there is a big skills issue here. We need to give employers certainty about training and address all the requirements and the need for investment around that. Does Sarah Boyack agree that there is a lot of merit in Clare Adamson’s amendment and that, whether it is moved today or not, we are all keen to further the conversation before stage 3?

I think that Ben Macpherson wants to intervene, convener. I do not know the etiquette. Should we go back to Sarah Boyack first? [Interruption.] The convener is busy. Ben, I will bring you in. [Laughter.]

Will Bob Doris give way on that point?

I appreciate that we have not had a chance to have a conversation about the amendments, given recent changes. I welcome the minister’s comments and hope that there will be an opportunity to meet her and her officials ahead of stage 3.

That is a really good question from Douglas Lumsden. We can talk about the dress later. Amendment 132 simply says that we

“must consider and account for the extraterritorial impact of material consumption in Scotland”.

Saying “consider and account for” means that the amendment is not overly prescriptive, but we need to start thinking about the different tools, mechanisms and data that are available. It is about getting better at reporting. I will come on to talk about my other amendments, which make us think a bit more about due diligence and public procurement, but it is really wrapped up in what Sarah Boyack said about a just transition. If we simply say that it is too difficult at this level, we will not put anything into the bill and we will not really make the changes that we need to make. If Douglas Lumsden cannot support that today, I hope that we can have a further conversation.

Amendment 134 would strengthen the strategy’s care and regard for due diligence, which I have just mentioned, in respect of environmental protection and human rights. A couple of weeks ago, I sponsored Fashion Revolution Scotland to have a stand near the chamber. I know that many members here stopped to chat and sewed buttons on to the map of Scotland. That was about having fun and getting people to have a conversation, but it was also about reflecting on environmental and human rights disasters that have happened in the name of fast fashion and other economic activities, such as the Rana Plaza disaster in Bangladesh, which cost the lives of thousands of people and left many others with life-changing injuries.

What we do in Scotland has an impact. My amendments support Sarah Boyack’s amendment 181, which requires ministers to

“act in accordance with the ‘do no harm’ principle”,

as called for by the Scottish Catholic International Aid Fund and Siembra Colombia in their joint submission to the committee. I am grateful that my amendments are supported by Friends of the Earth Scotland.

Can I speak about a couple of other amendments?

This is quite a big group of amendments, and it is important. We want the strategy to be strong and effective and, I hope, to lead to policy coherence.

I have a few amendments in the group—amendments 132, 134 and 185—that all aim to improve the content of the strategy. Amendment 132 would do that by ensuring that the circular economy strategy considers the impact on the rest of the world of material consumption in Scotland. For example, items of so-called fast fashion are frequently bought in Scotland and they end up in landfill overseas. The issue is about how we can be more thoughtful about that.

I will look back at the important evidence that we heard from stakeholders at stage 1. We heard from Circular Communities Scotland the example of the Atacama desert in Chile and the appeal that we in Scotland should be not adding to the problem but helping to reduce it. In the spirit of circularity, I should say that the dress that I am wearing was from a swish event that was run by a local business, which asked people to bring along clothes and do a bit of a clothes swap to try to divert unwanted clothing from ending up in landfill and being shipped overseas. That was a small action, but businesses such as the Parkville hotel in Blantyre and the Angels hotel in Uddingston are backing those kinds of initiatives. If anyone is wondering about the dress—in case they recognise it as their own—that is where it came from.

Bob Doris is trying to be helpful, as ever, but it is also worth acknowledging that we are in an unusual situation. We have had a change of minister—that can happen—and the minister has explained that she has had very little time to engage directly with the committee members. That must also be the case for the many other members who have a big interest in the bill. From the stage 1 evidence and report, we can see that many stakeholders and people across Scotland have engaged with it.

Many of us have had conversations with ministers and officials, and there has been a change of minister, so we want to get as much assurance as we can that time will be made available so that not only members of the committee but others who have amendments will have time to engage meaningfully with the Government. I think that the minister has been hinting today that that will be the case, but we all want further reassurance about it.