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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 7 July 2025
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Displaying 1920 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Monica Lennon

I put my question to Jon Hollingdale.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Monica Lennon

It is helpful to get that on the record.

I want to focus on biodiversity, for a moment. Does the panel have a view on whether sustaining biodiversity is a sufficient requirement, or should the bill require the land management plan to set out how the land is being used to increase biodiversity? Linda Gillespie is definitely looking away, so I am looking again at Josh Doble.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Monica Lennon

I will press you a little further on that. Do you have a view on how specific the land management plan should be? I know that we do not want to give a long list of particular problems, but I am thinking about management in respect of deer or rhododendron, for example, which were mentioned in a debate in Parliament last week. Is that the kind of detail that you think would be required for the plans to be effective?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Monica Lennon

Thank you for that.

You made a point about language that could be in the bill. I take your point about the phrase “large land holdings”. Do you want to expand on what you mean when you talk about “significant landholdings”? In the committee, we think about the meaning of words and their definitions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Monica Lennon

I see that Linda Gillespie does not wish to comment. That is fine.

I will move on to land management plans. The plans are required to set out how the land is being managed in a way that contributes to achieving net zero, adapting to climate change and increasing or sustaining biodiversity. Is that adequate, or are there other criteria that it might be appropriate to include? Should those be addressed through primary or secondary legislation?

Josh Doble is again maintaining eye contact, so we will go to him.

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Monica Lennon

Scottish Labour will also support amendments 6, 11 and 12. The amendments align with our aims to increase parliamentary oversight, to improve transparency and, as Mark Ruskell mentioned, to get the extra detail that we felt was perhaps going to be lacking otherwise. We will therefore support the amendments.

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Monica Lennon

At stage 2, we were a little unsure about the wording of Patrick Harvie’s proposal, so we appreciate the further work that has been done since last week. For that reason, we are content to support amendment 13.

Douglas Lumsden asked a fair question about the definition of a major capital project. It is a question that we had, too, but I think that the wording of the amendment is reasonable. There will be proposals in the plan. The principle behind the amendment is welcome and we can support it.

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Monica Lennon

Nevertheless, we are still not fully persuaded by the proposed amendments.

When we discussed the issue with the Government last week, there was a willingness on its part to go away and look at what Patrick Harvie is trying to achieve to see whether something can be done. I will listen to what the cabinet secretary has to say in a moment.

As Patrick Harvie probably knows, we are not yet fully persuaded. However, I would be interested to know whether there are other measures outwith the bill that the Government could look at that would help to achieve those aims. Patrick Harvie makes an important point about the important connection between the fiscal budget and the carbon budget. As he knows, Scottish Labour members would agree with anything that will improve scrutiny and alignment, but in this case, I am not convinced. Given the fact that he has lodged two different amendments on the same issue, I am not sure that he is fully convinced either, but I look forward to hearing what he has to say.

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Monica Lennon

I thank the cabinet secretary for her comments about my colleague Sarah Boyack. We had good discussions last week, and Sarah Boyack appreciated the cabinet secretary’s willingness to fix some of the oversights at stage 2. It is good to have that sorted.

On Mark Ruskell’s amendment 8, which we support—in fact, we support all the amendments in the group—we had a good discussion on the intention behind his amendment at stage 2, only a week ago. We understood and supported the principle, and amendment 8 gets the right balance.

This is an opportunity to remind the chamber that the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee has heard strongly from the climate change people’s panel that the public want to be involved and consulted in a very dynamic way. A raft of recommendations are sitting with the Government. However, those are not just for the Government to reflect on; they are for other public bodies to reflect on, too.

Amendment 8 is important. Indeed, anything that reminds us that we need to take the public with us on that journey and get the best ideas from as many people in Scotland as possible can only be a good thing.

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Monica Lennon

I am grateful to Patrick Harvie—I think that he will recognise that Scottish Labour members tried to be open minded at stage 2, and asked him some questions in order to get some clarity. However, although we are sympathetic to his aims in lodging amendments 14 and 15, which I think are alternatives to each other—is that correct?