Seòmar agus comataidhean

Thank you both for those helpful remarks.

I am mindful of time, so I will try to lump a few things into one question, and witnesses can respond to the parts that are most relevant to them.

I want to return to the issue of a just transition, and, in that regard, I refer everyone to my entry in the register of members’ interests, which states that I am a member of Unite the union and the GMB.

At the Glasgow conference, we saw climate strikers and environmentalists coming together publicly with workers and trade unions. That is a positive development. It appears that the public believe the science and are following it, but many workers are still quite sceptical about the ability of politicians and Governments to deliver a just transition, because they have never seen a just transition being delivered before. What needs to happen to make that just transition happen?

Mary Church talked about strengthening the climate change plan and developing a credible road map, and Jess Pepper touched on the issue of a route map, too. From the conversations that you have had with people at COP, what do you think people want to happen at national level?

We heard a lot about greenwashing ahead of COP and during it, in the blue zone. What can we do, in terms of public and political education, to enable us all to know that it is greenwashing when we see it, a bit like fake news? Often, we talk about education for children and young people in schools, but such education needs to be a lifelong thread running through all our lives. How can we make sure that the public have the right tools to be properly engaged in the conversation and to be able to call out greenwashing when they see it?

I was pleased to hear Mike Robinson mention the ecocide events that happened alongside COP. I had the chance to attend some of them.

I am thinking about what he and Professor Reay said about the opportunity for Scotland to lead the way and build progressive alliances. What role can Scotland play in the journey towards an ecocide law? I declare an interest as someone who is considering a member’s bill. Could Scotland play a role in that space on the climate and nature emergency?

Good morning to our witnesses. The discussion so far has been really interesting. We have heard a lot about 1.5°C—that it is on life support, that it has a faint pulse, and so on. We know that good intentions are not enough to keep 1.5 alive.

I hope that Malini Mehra can still hear us. I was interested in developing what she said about the role of parliaments—particularly for us in the Scottish Parliament, because people want to see all of us in the Parliament roll up our sleeves and get on with the actions that need to happen. Does our panel have advice for members of the Parliament on what we need to do in the short term? If Malini cannot hear us, perhaps Professor Skea—

Thank you very much. We know that the COP presidency will continue with the UK until COP27 in Egypt next year. Even though Scotland did not have a formal seat at the table, we have been able to lead through the action that has been taken on loss and damage. That has been very well received and has been a catalyst for other contributions.

We also have an opportunity to lead on the just transition. I know that a just transition declaration was agreed at COP26, but so far that has only been signed by the United States, the United Kingdom, the 27 EU countries, Norway, Canada and New Zealand. As a devolved nation, what more can we do in the run-up to COP27 to try to mainstream and embed the concept of just transition? What can we do to demonstrate that we are making progress towards that here in Scotland and in the UK?

Thank you, Malini. I am really pleased that you mentioned the climate assembly. I believe that the Scottish Government will be responding to its recommendations next month.

I am very proud of the role of children and young people in the lead up to COP26—as I am sure most of us are. I want to pay tribute to the Children’s Parliament and the Scottish Youth Parliament. It was lovely to see young people involved at the GLOBE summit at the Scottish Parliament.

We have talked about the role of the Parliament and there has been good public engagement during COP26. Not everyone is an avid COP watcher—if Professor Skea is not, what chance do the rest of us have? What happens next for those citizens who have been paying attention—perhaps not to all the details—and want to see progress? How do we ensure that the public does not lose heart, get disappointed and feel that there is no point if certain countries are not playing their part? What must happen next to ensure the participation of all our constituents and that they have a role in holding all our feet to the fire outwith election times?

Constituents in Lanarkshire have told me that they are willing to travel to other health boards. When I asked NHS Lanarkshire about that on Friday, I was told that there is no capacity in other health boards, apart from at the Golden Jubilee national hospital for a small number of cases. Since then I have been told that other health boards have approached NHS Lanarkshire, which is in code black, asking for help.

Are any other health boards close to being in code black and when can we expect mutual aid to become available? Is there any spare capacity at all in our health system?

If we are serious about averting climate catastrophe and accelerating towards a just transition for a green economy, Cambo cannot go ahead. There is no rigorous climate change test that Cambo could possibly pass, so the First Minister must do more than simply ask the UK Government to reassess the proposed oilfields. Time is running out. Will the First Minister oppose Cambo in the strongest possible terms and provide the political leadership that has been lacking?

[Inaudible.]—burst into song, Presiding Officer.

I, too, thank Emma Harper for securing a really important debate ahead of world COPD day, which is tomorrow. I declare an interest as a lung champion. I know that there are many of us in the chamber, and that is a positive.

I thank Asthma UK, the British Lung Foundation Scotland and Chest Heart & Stroke Scotland not only for their briefings, but for all the work that they do every day of the year.

I had a speech written, but in members’ business debates it is necessary to go with the flow and to respond to colleagues. Stephen Kerr’s speech was really powerful. They say that the personal is political, and he has left us with a lot to reflect on. I look forward to hearing what the minister says about the issue of stigma. My dad also had COPD. He was a heavy smoker and a heavy drinker, and although we could look at all the lifestyle issues that were going on there, I know that COPD can be a horrible condition that has a serious impact on quality of life.

However, we know that, with the correct diagnosis and the correct treatment and self-management, we can help people to live as well as possible. Therefore, it was good to hear from Clare Adamson about the Cheyne Gang choir, which sounds like a lot of fun. Last week, during the 26th United Nations climate change conference of the parties—COP26—some young people sang to me at an event that Asthma UK and the British Lung Foundation hosted in Òran Mór, outside the official COP venue. I will not sing it, but the children sang to me:

“Pollution, pollution.
It damages our lungs.
Save the environment,
Plant more trees.
Stop idling and turn engines off.”

It sounds better when you hear the children singing it. I tweeted it at the time.

At that panel event, I was struck by something said by a wee boy, who I think was 12 years old. He said that there are more inhalers in the school cupboard than there were when he started primary school. That is not so much about COPD, but it tells us that, although we have known about industrial injury and we know about things that are badged as lifestyle issues, such as smoking and drinking, when it comes to what we need to do to tackle environmental pollution, we cannot ignore the science. It is road safety week, too. Perhaps the minister will take back to her ministerial colleagues the message that we need to be joined up in making sure that we give our children the best start in life so that they do not grow up to develop conditions such as COPD.

Some great work is being done. I was pleased to hear Stephen Kerr and others talk about the important role of Chest Heart & Stroke Scotland in providing advocacy and practical support. I hope that the minister will join me in recognising the brilliant model of service that we have in the hospital to home service. I would like to hear what more the Government can do to support that important work.

Given my role on lung health as a pulmonary rehab champion, it would be remiss of me not to ask what action is under way to get pulmonary rehab services restarted urgently and to support those services with additional investment. I promise that I will not sing, but it sounds as though we are all on the same hymn sheet when it comes to the action that needs to be taken. I agree with Clare Adamson that there is a lot to be hopeful about, but, as Carol Mochan said, the issue is one of poverty, class and health inequality, and we need to know what targeted action will be taken to address it.

I congratulate my colleague Mercedes Villalba on securing this debate, which has been excellent so far. It has been a pleasure to see new members come to the Parliament, hit the ground running and get their motions for members’ business debates supported, and in Mercedes Villalba we see a real champion for the north-east, for workers and for the socialist green new deal that we badly need to tackle the climate and nature emergencies. This debate is also timely, with COP26 beginning in just three days’ time. We have heard good speeches from Gillian Martin about the work that she is doing, and from Liam Kerr, and I am sure that we will hear others from members who are about to speak.

Mercedes Villalba has been given credit by the First Minister for being constructive in her approach. I think that we hit a bit of a road bump with some of the responses from the Minister for Just Transition, Employment and Fair Work, Richard Lochhead, but I am pleased to see the Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and Biodiversity, Lorna Slater, on the screen today, because I know that she has a real insight and interest in the matter and I feel hopeful that she will respond to the solutions that have been proposed. Clearly, Mercedes Villalba has not come up with the proposals on her own. The report is the work of Friends of the Earth Scotland, Greenpeace, Platform and the RMT, and the proposals have come from workers themselves.

I was shocked to hear the account of the oil and gas worker James, who had to pay an eye-watering £6,000 to make the transition to offshore wind. What we are tackling is really an injustice—it is the opposite of a just transition. Given how big the agenda is, we need every member of this Parliament to do the heavy lifting, bringing the solutions to the chamber and giving a voice to workers. I hope that this will be quite an easy debate for the minister to respond to, because Mercedes Villalba has set out three clear asks, and some of the solutions are laid bare in the report, “Training & Tickets: The Hidden Costs For Offshore Oil & Gas Workers”. I am sure that it will not come as a surprise to the minister, but she is now in a position to do something, and many of us in the Parliament want to help.

I am grateful to the RMT for its helpful briefing and I echo its calls. There is an urgent need for an offshore training passport. We see in the findings that 94 per cent of offshore oil and gas workers are in favour of that. We have heard about some of the costs that workers have had to bear and, as I said, it is a real injustice. I said in our debate yesterday on COP26 that Scotland has the potential to lead Europe’s green energy revolution over the coming years and decades, but we need well-paid green jobs in order to be at the heart of that.

I am pleased that we have a chance today to talk a bit more about what a just transition actually means and what it needs to look like in practice. We have heard about a real fragmentation in training and a lot of profiteering that needs to be rooted out. I am also pleased that Mercedes Villalba talked about the green jobs workforce academy, because right now it does just look like a bit of a glorified website. When I asked Scottish Enterprise recently what a green job is, it said that it does not really have a definition of that, so we have some work to do.

As I said, this has been a good debate, because the asks are very clear. This is an urgent matter, and I hope that, in her response, the minister will be able to give a firm commitment to the member and to all of us who have a keen interest in making sure that we get a genuine, transformative, worker-led just transition, because we need that now.