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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 August 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

I am not asking about year-by-year changes relating to the national fraud initiative, because those costs in your budget are entirely predictable. I am asking why you asked for a budget of a certain amount for legal and professional fees, for example, when you spent substantially less than that in that year. The issue is, in part, about transparency, but it is also about credibility when you come to us to ask for a budget this year.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Good morning, everybody. On that last point, we have heard figures from 40 per cent up to 48 per cent or 49 per cent. What is your target? What kind of completion rates of audits were there before the pandemic, for example? You mentioned that some of this is about catching up, as the work was knocked off its path because of the pandemic and the very difficult circumstances that everybody was in at that point. What are your targets? What would you expect?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Why are you so resistant to doing that? Over a year ago, you were sat there and you and I had an exchange about the Auditor General’s recommendation to produce annual reports that would give greater transparency and clarity about whether progress was being made. You said—rather dismissively, I think—that you were not really interested in what you described as “a dry annual report.” Why do you have such resistance to the idea of openly publishing an annual summary of progress being made or not?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

You understand why, to us as the Public Audit Committee, it is unsatisfactory that, in this year’s report, the Auditor General had to repeat a recommendation. On the recommendation to

“Publish annual progress updates on the reform of services”,

under the heading “Limited progress”, he said:

“We repeat the recommendation in this report.”

Reform is the watchword of the new Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, so why have you not come up with the standard of reporting that the Auditor General thinks is required?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

On the 2023 report, the Auditor General, in a fairly stark summary, said that there was

“no single overall vision for how health services will look in future.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 21 March 2024; c 36.]

When I raised that with the then First Minister at a meeting of the Conveners Group in the Parliament, he said:

“I respectfully disagree with the Auditor General on that point”.

Where do you stand on that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. Finally, I will take you back to the cabinet secretary’s vision and therefore, I presume, to the Government’s vision. The cabinet secretary told Parliament that he had outlined his vision to Cabinet colleagues before he made his statement. He also spoke about the establishment of ministerial task forces, expert reference groups and stakeholder advisory groups. What are they going to do?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. I invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. I am not sure that I entirely understand that, but that is probably a reflection on me and not you, director general.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

The deputy convener has questions on a number of areas.

10:00  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

You mentioned general levels of inflation, which have been high in the past couple of years, although they have come down a bit more recently. However, we are talking about an increase of 400 per cent, and more, in the expected cost of the construction of seven of those national treatment centres, are we not?