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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 4 February 2026
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Displaying 3715 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. On your final point, I am sure that we will take full evidence from you in due course on the report that came out yesterday. Nonetheless, we may have some questions this morning about some of the issues that are raised in that section 22 report.

I will begin with one of the themes that came out when the report on the Scottish Government’s consolidated accounts was published. There was some discussion around the levels of underspend. My primary question is whether you think that the levels of underspend that are reflected in the consolidated accounts are reasonable.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. Can I just interrogate that a little bit more? On the social justice underspend of £164 million, are you saying that that is unspent money on cladding remediation, for example? Did you also say that it is part of the social security budget, or have I picked that up wrong?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much, and thanks for answering those questions. I now invite the deputy convener to put his questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you, Mr Simpson. I now invite Joe FitzPatrick to put some final questions to you, Auditor General.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 December 2025

Richard Leonard

I am a revolutionary, Mr Crosby.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I would like to go back to the 5 per cent vacancy factor, which is a major part of your savings plan. First, that is quite a blunt instrument, is it not? It is not something that is entirely within your control. Secondly, as we have discussed before, it can be detrimental to the morale of the workforce if people are leaving and it is a deliberate plan not to replace them. How are you managing that? Underlying that, I am challenging you—is it an ethical thing to do?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Other members of the commission might also have questions on staffing, but I want to move on to another area: the future of public audit model. In paragraph 35 of your submission, you talk about a

“root-and-branch review of public audit”.

Do you anticipate that that will deliver savings?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 December 2025

Richard Leonard

So that I understand how it works, is there a default position? Is it automatic that the filling of a vacancy is delayed? Or are some positions so important to the organisation that you would begin recruitment straight away? If you reached a 10 per cent vacancy factor during the 10th month of the year and people left at that point, would you recruit immediately? How does the dynamic of that work?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. My final question is on the balance that you have at the moment. Auditor General, you have already referred to the fact that private firms carry out around about a third of the public audit work in Scotland. What does your current market intelligence tell you about that? We have heard before that there might be some increase in the costs that the private sector would expect to enjoy in carrying that work out. You said that you expect to enter the next five-year cycle in 2027-28, which is not too far away. At this stage, what are you doing to understand where the market is and consider whether there are different options that the board, led by Mr Crosby, will need to consider?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 December 2025

Richard Leonard

I take that point completely.