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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 June 2025
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Displaying 3214 contributions

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SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 15 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Earlier in the meeting, you said that the corporate body had oversight over governance and accountability, which is quite a clear responsibility that lies firmly in the corporate body’s corner.

I have one final question in this area, convener, if I may.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 15 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I have a couple of other questions. As I understand it, there are quarterly meetings between the officer-holder services team and the commissioners and related bodies, and Mr Carlaw said that the corporate body now has biannual meetings with each of those post holders. Previously, I think that it might have been an annual session. For the record, could you confirm that that is how the process works at the moment? Is that the frequency of that interaction?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 15 May 2025

Richard Leonard

No, that is fine.

10:45  

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 15 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 15 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Maggie Chapman mentioned that she has two hats. I have the hat of the convener of the Public Audit Committee. The evidence that we took from the Auditor General was rather contrary to what you have said. He felt—and, as it happens, it is a view that I share—that there is some value in getting the assurance of a stand-alone audit. Last week, we explored that in relation to His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland, which is audited as part of the Scottish Government’s consolidated accounts audit, unlike the Scottish Fiscal Commission, which has its own independent internal audit and is externally audited by Audit Scotland. Have you taken a view on whether there would be merit in combining the audit process for all those public bodies?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“General practice: Progress since the 2018 General Medical Services contract”

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I go back to the whole-system perspective. GPs are presumably grappling with the issue of waiting times in secondary care. If people are on long waiting lists to get elective surgery or other procedures, that is presumably leading to an increase in demand on GP services to infill for some of that.

Do you have a view on the necessity of tackling not just the general medical services side of that, but what is going on in secondary care? Presumably, you cannot have success in one area without achieving success in the other.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“General practice: Progress since the 2018 General Medical Services contract”

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Richard Leonard

What we are discussing this morning is described as a contract. Is it a woolly, social contract—a voluntary arrangement—or is it a contract in which parties are involved and remedy can be sought? That could be a remedy whereby the Government could say, “As part of the contract, you promised to provide us with data, which you are not doing. You are in breach of the contract.” Or, on the other side, GPs might say, “You promised to give us the resources to have multidisciplinary teams and you haven’t done that. You promised to put resources into secondary care to stop the logjam falling back on us and you haven’t.”

Is it a contract in the sense that people have any access to a remedy if there is a breach of contract?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“General practice: Progress since the 2018 General Medical Services contract”

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Richard Leonard

On that note, I will draw the public part of this morning’s session to a close. Before I do so, I thank our witnesses this morning—Eva Thomas-Tudo, who joined us online, Fiona Lees, Carol Calder and the Auditor General. You have given us quite a lot of food for thought and we will need to consider whether we would like to quiz other people about some of the recommendations and outcomes of the very important report that we have been discussing.

11:34 Meeting continued in private until 12:05.  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“General practice: Progress since the 2018 General Medical Services contract”

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Well, until half past 11 at least.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Interests

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 15th meeting of the Public Audit Committee in 2025. We have received apologies from Stuart McMillan, so I welcome Stephanie Callaghan, who is substituting for Stuart. She is attending virtually for this, her first Public Audit Committee meeting.

Because it is your first meeting, Stephanie, I ask you to declare any relevant interests.