The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 March 2026
Richard Leonard
Thank you. We may return to PFI at some point later on, but Jamie Greene has some questions now.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 March 2026
Richard Leonard
On that note of harmony, I will bring this morning’s session to a close. I thank Caroline Lamb, Christine McLaughlin and Fiona Bennett for their evidence this morning. I note that you are going to get back to us with more information about some things.
As this is our final session together, Caroline, and you have been one of our most regular witnesses, I am bound to say that I am reminded of Nye Bevan saying in 1948 that, as the health secretary, he would be responsible for every single dropped bedpan. I should think that there are times when you have felt as though you have been held responsible for that level of detail—we even got to tattoo removal this morning.
I thank you very much for your co-operation with the committee and, to reflect the point that Joe FitzPatrick made earlier, we appreciate your willingness to sit before us, answer our questions and respond to our requests for further information to help us scrutinise what we have reminded everybody is a huge part of public expenditure in Scotland and a treasured institution—the national health service.
As previously agreed by the committee, I move the meeting into private.
11:18
Meeting continued in private until 11:36.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 March 2026
Richard Leonard
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the ninth meeting in 2026 of the Public Audit Committee.
Our first agenda item is a decision on whether to take agenda items 3, 4 and 5 in private. Do members agree to take those items in private?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 March 2026
Richard Leonard
What is the point of a support and intervention framework and the Scottish Government supporting and intervening if that makes no difference to a health board’s performance or financial position? Is not the purpose of escalation to bring about an improvement in performance and financial management?
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 March 2026
Richard Leonard
Can I take you to the other side of the argument? A number of health boards have never gone into financial deficit and have never needed to be escalated. They might not have met all the performance targets but, nonetheless, they have not found themselves requiring brokerage or financial bailouts or loans. What do you say to them?
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 March 2026
Richard Leonard
I suppose that that begs a question about why it is necessary to rely on unannounced inspections by Healthcare Improvement Scotland to bring about the necessary changes, interventions and supports. Should we not have a better system of communication that lets you understand what is going on out there? Such a system could, for example, let you know that there are regularly six beds in a four-bed ward, or whatever the issues are. We heard about the issues at Dr Gray’s hospital, for example, that came up in the NHS Grampian escalation. Do you need to wait until there is a swoop by the HIS team to understand that activities are not being conducted to a level that we would expect and that there are public health issues in relation to how patients are being treated?
09:45
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 March 2026
Richard Leonard
Good. Thank you very much. I now invite Colin Beattie to put some questions to you.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 March 2026
Richard Leonard
Thank you. I turn to Joe FitzPatrick, who has some more questions for you.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 March 2026
Richard Leonard
Okay—that is fine, Joe. In that case, I invite Graham Simpson to put some questions.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 March 2026
Richard Leonard
I see your frustration, Mr Simpson. I want to follow up on some of Mr Simpson’s questions. Lanarkshire has been mentioned, and we have been talking about prescription drugs. There is a shortage of co-codamol at the moment, is there not? People are unable to get it prescribed through their GPs—certainly, people in Lanarkshire have been coming to me to say that. Do you know what the latest position is, how long it is likely to last and what the alternative solutions are?