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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 7 November 2025
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Displaying 3464 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

We have had previous conversations with you about the medium-term financial strategy being delayed. It was delayed last year. Is it being delayed this year? Is there going to be a delay in the publication of the major capital projects list? Those are matters of concern to the Public Audit Committee.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. We thought that it would be useful to have some of those scene-setting discussions at the start of this morning’s session, but we now want to get into some of the specifics of the work programme.

First, the section 23 report on national health service governance is coming out in May, or from tomorrow onwards. The Public Audit Committee not just in this session but in previous sessions of Parliament has had some long-standing concerns about the extent to which leadership and governance in the NHS are working as they ought to be. Without pre-empting too much of the report that you are about to publish, do you see signs of improvements being made to leadership and governance in our national health service?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I invite Stuart McMillan to put a final series of questions to the Auditor General.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Before we finish up this morning, let us go back to the Ferguson Marine situation. I should know the answer to this question, but I will ask it nonetheless. In relation to the forensic audit of FMEL in the pre-nationalisation period, have those forensic auditors been appointed? If so, who are they? If they have been appointed and we know who they are, what stage are we at? You mentioned a scoping exercise and the need to gain an understanding of what documentation is available and so on. It would be helpful to learn, on the record, a little bit more about that and about when you anticipate that they will report.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

This is my final question—you may not be able to answer either the first or the second part of it. First, is the work purely a desktop exercise, or will people such as Jim McColl, the former owner of the yard, be interviewed?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I have a question on a minor point. When you have undertaken these kinds of pieces of work in the past, you have often spoken to people with lived experience. So, in the work that you are doing and which you plan to do on Social Security Scotland, the adult disability payment and so on, will you speak to people in receipt of that payment to understand how they are affected by the way in which it operates?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Yesterday, I was reflecting on the fact that Graham Simpson and I are both Central Scotland MSPs, and the two health boards in our area have had quite significant leadership changes in quite a short space of time. Next week, the new chief executive officer of NHS Lanarkshire starts; this is no comment on that individual at all, but they will be the third CEO in two and a half years. If you include the interim CEO, NHS Forth Valley is on to its third CEO in less than two years.

There seems to be quite a lot of turbulence in those leadership positions. Are the underlying reasons for that part of what you are looking at? Are they being given the support that they need? Is one potential facet the revolving door, which means that people just move between health boards? Is that creating an instability in the leadership of territorial NHS boards?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

What is your anticipated timetable for that? Will your analysis of the major capital projects prioritisation be something that you will do some work on and put in the public domain before the end of this year, for example?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

I will bring in Stuart McMillan in a second, but first I want to ask you about an expression that you used earlier. You have just described the consequences for democratic scrutiny and for some of the decisions that the Government needs to make of the delays to the medium-term financial strategy. You also said in your opening statement that the Government has not yet delivered “at pace” on things such as public sector reform. That is a very mild criticism, is it not? There is an inference that the Government could be pressing ahead at a quicker rate than it actually is.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

That was useful. I come back to Graham Simpson, who has a couple of other issues that he wants to raise with you.