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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 12 November 2025
Richard Leonard
You mentioned in your opening statement that you are pleased with the key messages in the report.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 12 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Other members of the committee will ask questions about performance and the finances of the adult disability payment system.
Last week, we took evidence from Edel Harris, who chaired the independent review of adult disability payment. Do you have any initial reaction to the report that she produced earlier this year?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 12 November 2025
Richard Leonard
I have a final question for now. Exhibit 1 in the Auditor General’s report sets out the eight principles, which I do not need to rehearse at this point. Principle 8 is:
“The Scottish social security system is to be efficient and deliver value for money.”
Do all these principles have equal weighting or is that one a prevailing principle?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 12 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Well, you mentioned Police Scotland, HMRC and so on, which are public sector agencies of good standing. However, there has been an issue with HMRC using private companies to debt collect and things like that. I am just wondering whether you have gone down—
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 12 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Absolutely.
On that note, I will draw this session to a close. I thank Helen Fogarty and David Wallace, from Social Security Scotland, and Stephen Kerr, Kevin Stevens and the director general for communities, from the Scottish Government. Thank you for giving us the full answers that we were looking for on a range of questions. We will consider what next steps we might want to take as a committee, and we will inform you of those in due course.
Because we are going to change over witnesses, I will suspend the meeting for five minutes.
11:04 Meeting suspended.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 12 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Welcome back, everyone. Agenda item 3 is consideration of the Auditor General’s briefing, “Scotland’s colleges 2025”. I am very pleased that we are joined this morning by the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle. Good morning, Auditor General. Mr Boyle is accompanied by Derek Hoy, who is a senior manager at Audit Scotland, and Ray Buist, who is an audit manager at Audit Scotland, who both worked on the briefing.
Before we put some questions to you, Auditor General, I invite you to make an opening statement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 12 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much indeed for that introduction. I turn straight away to the deputy convener, Jamie Greene, who has some questions to put to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 12 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much. At the outset, do you accept the findings and recommendations of Audit Scotland’s report?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 12 November 2025
Richard Leonard
We all recognise it. Do you accept the recommendations and findings?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 12 November 2025
Richard Leonard
What do you understand “value for money” to mean?