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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 7 November 2025
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Displaying 3464 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. This is the start of a consultation process, and I know that other committees of the Parliament might also have a view on what best, or optimum, practice might be when it comes to the work that you are doing on some of these areas.

We will now move on, and I invite Colin Beattie to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Indeed. I will invite Colin Beattie first, and then Stuart McMillan, to raise some questions with the Auditor General in that area.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Graham Simpson has some questions.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Our main agenda item this morning is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s work programme for the year April 2025 to March 2026, which effectively takes us up to the next Scottish Parliament election.

I am very pleased to welcome Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General for Scotland. Alongside the Auditor General are Alison Cumming, who is an executive director of performance audit and best value at Audit Scotland, and Mark MacPherson, who is an audit director at Audit Scotland.

We have quite a number of questions to put to you this morning, Auditor General, but before we get to those, I invite you to make an opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed.

I will begin by looking at the general picture. At the very start of what you just said and in your written presentation to the committee, you set out pretty clearly the challenges that are being faced by all public bodies, led by the Scottish Government.

You gave a sense that things are not really going in the right direction. You talked about demand for public services rising at the same time as the financial outlook is, in your words, “challenging and volatile”. You also talked about the growing gap between budget forecasts and spending plans, and a lack of clarity around that issue and how it will be addressed.

The recurring theme throughout your presentation is around the sustainability of public services—particularly, although not exclusively, their financial sustainability.

You also reminded us that there are still persistent inequalities that are not being addressed, and that the outcomes that people experience show significant variations, based on disability, race, where they live and the extent to which they are living in an impoverished community or in poverty themselves.

All of those things pose big challenges. The big question is, then: how do you think that the Scottish Government is responding to those challenges?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

That is tomorrow.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Audit Scotland has described it as an assurance exercise on the work that has been commissioned to be done by an external firm of accountants.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Moving on to another area that you will be reporting on—the adult disability payment, which is administered by Social Security Scotland—I note that, in your presentation, you very tactfully said that,

“Social security spending is increasingly outstripping Barnett consequentials in Scotland.”

My reading of the UK Government’s recently published green paper suggests that that situation is going to get a whole lot worse. If I have read correctly what is being proposed, there are the cuts to universal credit and the eligibility criteria for that, but what will have a more direct bearing on the adult disability payment are the proposed changes to the personal independence payment. As I read it, an aim in the green paper is to cut eligibility. Assessments are based on scores; I think that the score thresholds to qualify for PIP will rise, and the Office for Budget Responsibility has estimated that 800,000 people will face a minimum cut of £4,200 per annum.

The effect of that on the consequentials for the Social Security Scotland budget is quite profound, is it not? Do I read it correctly that the pressures that you have identified in relation to where we are now are likely to be exacerbated significantly in the future, never mind the individual consequences for the outcomes for people in receipt of those payments?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

We look forward to your report.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 13th meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee. We have received apologies from the deputy convener, Jamie Greene.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on whether to take agenda items 3, 4, 5 and 6 in private. Are we agreed to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.