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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 June 2025
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Displaying 3231 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Richard Leonard

Thanks for that. Mr Hinds, do you want to come back in?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Richard Leonard

I will ask a particular question about one of the things that is identified in the section 22 report. It is highly unusual and is something that we have not seen before. It is highlighted by the Auditor General that the limit on the amount of public money that can be spent on meals, subsistence and so on was removed in January 2023. I will turn to the Scottish Government first. When did you become aware of that? If you did not know about it, why did you not know about it?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Richard Leonard

I am very conscious of the time but we have two outstanding questions that we want to put to you before we finish—one of them is from the deputy convener. Before we get to that, following on from what we have just been talking about, we were told by the former CEO that there had been discussions—I think that we have alluded to this in previous evidence sessions—about the tension between the regulatory role and the consultancy role and whether there should be a distinct and separate operation. He mentioned that a name for a separate organisation to cover the consultancy work was discussed at the board on numerous occasions and I think that that name was registered but never activated. Can any of you shed any light on why that never emerged as the way to separate out some of the difficult issues that we have discussed this morning and in previous sessions?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Richard Leonard

Right. That is slightly at odds with what Mr Brannen said earlier, which is that, in the end, it all must be compliant with the Scottish public finance manual and good governance arrangements, value for money and so on.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you for your forbearance. It has been quite a long session and some of it was quite testing but we very much appreciate your presence here and your willingness to answer the questions that we have put to you. On behalf of the committee, I thank Ronnie Hinds and David Satti from the Water Industry Commission for Scotland, and Michelle Quinn, Kersti Berge, Jo Blewett and director general Roy Brannen from the Scottish Government. As other members of the committee have said, it is good to see you back and thank you all for your evidence this morning. Michelle Quinn even got in just at the end there so I can include her in that vote of thanks. I will now move the meeting into private session.

12:57 Meeting continued in private until 13:11.  

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2023/24”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Richard Leonard

You mentioned volatility. One of the things that happened in the medium-term retrospective look that we are taking is, of course, the pandemic, which was a severe shock to the economy. How does that affect some of the estimates and assessments?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Richard Leonard

So, do you think that that is the way forward if there is a resurrection of that international consultancy work?

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2023/24”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Richard Leonard

That might come back to haunt you, Mr Stewart, but we will see. I hope that you are right

My final question is on the overestimates. Your report speaks about calibration adjustments and a calibration adjustment was required to be made in 2021-22. Do you expect HMRC to have to make a calibration adjustment for the tax year 2023-24?

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2023/24”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. I will now pass over to the deputy convener, Jamie Greene, who I know has some questions to put.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. We will come to the international work later in our evidence session this morning.

I turn finally turn to you, Mr Brannen—but feel free to delegate to your team.

I am quite surprised that you did not know that something like that was happening. If the matter went to the audit and risk committee and the board, I would have expected there to be some oversight of it. Do the board and the audit and risk committee not produce minutes? At the very least, did the person who was in Jo Blewett’s position at the time not read the minutes that were generated in order to keep an eye on what was going on in a public organisation like WICS?