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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 November 2025
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Displaying 3464 contributions

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SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Let me ask about oversight by the Scottish Government—either by the sponsor team or whichever part of the Government is relevant. What is the difference between, say, oversight of the audit of His Majesty’s inspectorates versus the oversight of the audit of the Scottish Fiscal Commission or the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

As I have said, a view has come through that, just as HM Inspectorate of Constabulary is part of a collective audit—in that it is part of the Scottish Government audit—some of the bodies that we are looking at could be a subject within the Parliament’s internal audit instead of being separately audited. I am not advocating for that to happen; I am just reflecting on evidence that we have taken as a committee.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay, right; thank you. I now invite Stuart McMillan to put some final questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I will bookend the session by returning to the recommendations. Laura Caven seemed to hesitate a bit in saying whether she accepts the recommendation on having more consistent data nationally, which has been a theme of this morning’s meeting and in the Audit Scotland and Accounts Commission briefing and recommendations.

When Stella Smith was answering one of the questions that Graham Simpson put to her, I was reflecting on the fact that, as well as recommendations, the briefing has suggested timescales for meeting those recommendations. Do you accept the timescales that the Auditor General and Accounts Commission recommend?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Richard Leonard

That almost takes us to a full two hours. I place on record the thanks of the committee for your time and input. I thank Joanna Anderson—I apologise that your name was misspelled on your nameplate, Joanna—Suzanne McLeod and Laura Caven from COSLA, and I thank Clair Henderson, Stella Smith and Neil Rennick from the Scottish Government.

With that, I move the committee into private session.

11:29 Meeting continued in private until 12:43.  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Richard Leonard

We will get into more detail on this, and I will bring in Colin Beattie in short order, but I just want to be clear on one point. One of the fundamental criticisms that is levelled at the Scottish Government and, I guess, COSLA in the briefing is about the gaps in data. In order to plan, you need evidence, and you need to be able to follow that evidence and to make sure that the resources are being used in the right way.

I presume that data collection, which we will get into in some detail, is entirely within your gift. You could produce data in a way that is consistent across local authorities, which would allow you to form a national picture and understand where the £8 billion-worth of public spending in education services ought to go.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Do you therefore accept the criticism that has been levelled at you that you have not effectively planned for that change?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. I will move things on by inviting Graham Simpson to ask you some questions.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I am not sure whether you grasp what I took to be a fairly fundamental criticism of the funding arrangements. In part, that perhaps reflects Mr McMillan’s point that the briefing is clear that there is a direct correlation between areas with high levels of deprivation and the requirement for additional support for learning in those areas.

Are you satisfied that the current funding arrangements meet the challenge that is created by deprivation, inequality or, for example, the issue of English not being a person’s first language, which you have mentioned a couple of times this morning? Do you think that the funding arrangements properly address that?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Just for completeness, Laura Caven, you are a co-chair of the project board. Who is the other co-chair?