The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 16 December 2021
Richard Leonard
Good morning, and welcome to the 12th meeting of the Public Audit Committee in this session.
The first item on our agenda is a decision on taking items 3 and 4 in private. If any member objects to taking items 3 and 4 in private, please raise your hand. I see no objections, so I take that as assent. Thank you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 16 December 2021
Richard Leonard
The second item on our agenda is further evidence on the Audit Scotland report on the Crofting Commission. I am pleased to welcome our Scottish Government witnesses, who all join us online: Roy Brannen is the interim director general for net zero, Andrew Scott is the director for agriculture and rural economy, and John Kerr is the head of the agricultural policy division.
To get us under way, I invite Mr Brannen to make a short opening statement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 16 December 2021
Richard Leonard
I thank Roy Brannen, John Kerr and Andrew Scott for giving us their time and for answering our questions on the wide range of topics that are covered in the report.
I now close the public part of the meeting.
10:30 Meeting continued in private until 11:33.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 16 December 2021
Richard Leonard
Thank you. We will dig a little deeper into some of those areas around governance, because it is an important concern that we have had in the light of the report that was produced.
One of the things in the report that is exercising us is the relationship between the Crofting Commission’s board and senior management team and the sponsor division of the Scottish Government. According to paragraph 14 of the report, the Scottish Government sponsor division
“appeared to view its relationship of consequence as being with the Senior Management Team rather than the Convener.”
I wonder what your response to that comment is, Mr Brannen. Please feel free to bring in your other colleagues.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 16 December 2021
Richard Leonard
Mr Kerr has indicated that he wants to contribute.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 16 December 2021
Richard Leonard
We have a series of questions on business planning. Willie Coffey will come in, but I call Sharon Dowey first.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 9 December 2021
Richard Leonard
I think that you also said that, because of the need to recover the census exercise, management consultants were brought in. I do not know whether it is cause or effect, but a decision was also taken around that time to widen the membership of the census programme board to include the ONS and NISRA, which oversees the census in Northern Ireland. Were they not already on the programme board?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 9 December 2021
Richard Leonard
Good morning, and welcome to the 11th meeting of the Public Audit Committee in this session. Before we begin, I remind people about the Parliament’s rules on social distancing and advise everyone that, if they are moving around, exiting or entering the room, they should wear a face covering.
The first item on our agenda is a decision on taking items 3 and 4 in private. Do members agree to take those items in private?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 9 December 2021
Richard Leonard
The second item on our agenda is consideration of an Audit Scotland section 22 report on the National Records of Scotland. We have a number of witnesses with us this morning. First of all, I welcome the Auditor General for Scotland, Stephen Boyle, who joins us in the committee room. Also from Audit Scotland, we are joined remotely by Graeme Samson, senior auditor, Asif Haseeb, senior manager, audit services, and Dharshi Santhakumaran, correspondence manager, performance audit and best value. You are all very welcome.
The Auditor General usually invites his colleagues in at the appropriate juncture. However, if any of you want to come in but have not been spotted, please put an R in the chat room function. I also extend that invitation to Willie Coffey, who also joins us remotely. I will bring him in as we go through the meeting.
Before we move to questions, I invite the Auditor General to make an opening statement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 9 December 2021
Richard Leonard
However, the audit report from 2018-19 refers to a census recovery plan, and that was two or three years before the expected date for carrying out the census. Is it not fair to say that there were underlying problems, even before the pandemic struck?