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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 9 November 2025
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Displaying 3464 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of NHS National Services Scotland”; and “Personal protective equipment”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

I end the session by inviting Craig Hoy to be very topical.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

Thank you, Auditor General.

If Pat Kenny or Graeme Greenhill wants to come in at any point, they should please type R in the chat function and I will bring them in. I am sure that the Auditor General will prompt them to come in as well.

Some fairly serious conclusions are reached in the report, which is hard hitting and, frankly, critical of the way in which the Crofting Commission is being run and governed. The report points to significant weaknesses in the commission’s leadership and governance arrangements, so I am bound to ask what the accounting officer in the Crofting Commission has been up to.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

Thank you. We will explore the dynamics of the interaction between the Scottish Government, the sponsor division, the executive—including the accountable officer and the senior team—and the board. Auditor General, perhaps you can clarify my understanding: the board is a hybrid, with three members of the commission appointed by the Scottish Government and six being elected. Is that correct? I presume, therefore, that there are different lines of accountability even within the commission itself.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

Thank you, Mr Kenny. Craig Hoy has some questions to develop that line of inquiry.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

I will summarise what has been said so far. The report was published by Audit Scotland on 13 October. We are meeting on 4 November—22 days later—and the message that is coming from Mr Kenny is that all those issues have been addressed and rectified. Is that correct?

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

I welcome everybody to the Public Audit Committee’s eighth meeting in this session of Parliament. I remind witnesses, staff and members to respect rules on social distancing and that, if they are moving around or entering or leaving the room, they should wear a face covering.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on whether to take business in private. Do members agree to take items 4, 5 and 6 in private.

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

The principal business of the first of our two evidence sessions this morning is consideration of a section 22 report that was published on 13 October. I am delighted to welcome our witnesses: Stephen Boyle is the Auditor General for Scotland, and joining us remotely are Graeme Greenhill, senior manager for performance audit and best value at Audit Scotland, and Pat Kenny from Deloitte LLP, who worked on the audit and assurance in reference to this audit of the Crofting Commission. I invite the Auditor General to make an opening statement before we proceed to our questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

I am sure that we will return to some of those themes. Willie Coffey has a laser-like focus on an area of the report that caused real alarm among the committee.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

Graeme Greenhill wants to come in on this.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of NHS National Services Scotland”; and “Personal protective equipment”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

Thank you for that clarification. The question was not designed to catch you out. It is just that we want to understand better how you arrived at your conclusions.

One of the other issues that features in the report is that costings were done at pace, especially in the early days. Contract approval documents were not completed to a consistent level of detail, as you already mentioned, and concerns are raised in the report about the scrutiny of contracts before their conclusion. Will you give us a picture of the extent to which that was prevalent at the beginning of the pandemic, when there was urgency, and the extent to which it continued as a practice over the months after the initial spike in demand for PPE?