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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 9 June 2022
Richard Leonard
Do you think that that is what you found?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 9 June 2022
Richard Leonard
That is not the view of Audit Scotland. Even after the discovery of 11 May and the publication that you were able to make, Audit Scotland said:
“The email confirms that ministers approved the award of the FMEL contract. But there remains insufficient documentary evidence to explain why the decision was made to proceed with the contract, given the significant risks and concerns raised by CMAL.”
Notwithstanding what you have said, Audit Scotland’s view is quite different, is it not?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 9 June 2022
Richard Leonard
I just wanted to follow up Sharon Dowey’s question, which, I think, Mo Rooney answered, on the changing role of CMAL and its having the role of overseeing the work in the yard. When the question was asked, legitimately, whether you thought that that represented a conflict of interest, you said that you had given consideration to the matter, presumably concluding that there was no such conflict. Can you provide us with any documentary evidence of those considerations?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 9 June 2022
Richard Leonard
When did you find the thing that Mr Brannen referred to as “the bit of paper”?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 9 June 2022
Richard Leonard
I think that that was the same day that the Conservative party called a debate on ferries in the Parliament. Is that correct?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 9 June 2022
Richard Leonard
And the minister was able to wave that bit of paper in Parliament in the afternoon of 11 May.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 9 June 2022
Richard Leonard
Okay. In his evidence, Roy Brannen made clear that he felt that the gap had been filled, but Audit Scotland’s position is that it was not filled—and that is not just a matter of record keeping or a bit of paper; it is about the whole approach and it is about transparency.
Let me pick up on another issue. Fran Pacitti, the documents that you found on 11 May tell us a little about who was involved in the decision-making process. Mr Brannen told us on 26 May that it was
“entirely a decision for the transport minister.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 26 May 2022; c 6.]
However, we can see from the correspondence of 8 and 9 October that you unearthed that the Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities, Keith Brown, was copied into emails. The last word in that series of emails belongs to the Deputy First Minister, who was clearly an active player in the decision; a report of his comments was in an email that was sent at a quarter past 5 on 9 October. How do you reconcile that with the comment that the decision was entirely for the transport minister? Perhaps Hugh Gillies will answer that.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 9 June 2022
Richard Leonard
Okay, but other people in ministerial positions were copied into the emails. They were part of the email conversation. What do you say to that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 9 June 2022
Richard Leonard
But what do you say, Mr Gillies?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 9 June 2022
Richard Leonard
That is 11 May. You found that document on the morning of 11 May.