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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 7 February 2026
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Displaying 3715 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you.

On that note of clarity, I thank our witnesses Jackie McGeehan, Jonathan Athow, Alyson Stafford and Fiona Thom for the evidence that they have given. We appreciate their time and their contributions.

We will consider what steps to take and how we can keep a monitoring eye on this important work in future. As we have said, we want it, above all, to be evidence led. Whether it is around people’s behavioural patterns, compliance rates, collection rates or people fleeing the country in order to evade or avoid tax, those things are important to us, so I thank you very much for your openness in discussing them with us this morning.

11:09 Meeting continued in private until 11:35.  

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 14th meeting of the Public Audit Committee in 2022. Under the first item on our agenda do we agree to take items 4, 5 and 6 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Thanks, Mr Simpson. I appreciate that pointer.

I thank all the members who have participated in this evidence session. I also thank the witnesses—the Auditor General, Rebecca Seidel and Lucy Nutley. Thank you very much for your co-operation and openness about the section 22 audit report that you have been required to produce. We will consider our next steps in relation to pursuing our interest in what, by all accounts—including appendix 1 of the report—looks very much like a public institution that has been in crisis.

I now suspend the meeting to allow a changeover of witnesses to take place.

09:57 Meeting suspended.  

10:00 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 3 is on the administration of Scottish income tax. We took evidence on 3 February on the reports that we had received from Audit Scotland and the National Audit Office. We want to explore further some of the implications of the reports, and we have a series of questions on them.

I welcome our witnesses. Alyson Stafford is director general of the Scottish exchequer, Fiona Thom is head of the income tax and reserved taxes unit at the Scottish Government, Jonathan Athow is director general for customer strategy and tax design at Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, and Jackie McGeehan is deputy director for income tax policy at HMRC. You are all very welcome.

I invite Alyson Stafford to make a short opening statement. We will then proceed to ask a series of questions.

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you, but we are still not clear about whether the NAO is included.

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Does it use the NAO’s estimate as part of its deliberations?

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

I understand that you are compliant with the requirements that are placed on you by legislation but, as the director general of the Scottish exchequer, would it not make sense for you to at least take into account the National Audit Office’s estimates of future tax take?

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Does that include the NAO’s estimate?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you for that illuminating response, which was helpful and will inform our future evidence-taking sessions with the principal people from the college.

I know that Graham Simpson is anxious to come in, but before I call him, I want to ask about ownership of the governance improvement plan, which you have identified as an issue in the report, and particularly the role of the Lanarkshire board and the Scottish Funding Council. What is your understanding of the role that those bodies will play in monitoring the progress of implementation of the governance improvement plan that has been agreed?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

That raises wider policy implications that are not necessarily for us to pick up but which are of interest to us as MSPs.

My final question relates to paragraph 24, which talks about “additional costs” incurred by the college in its attempts to understand the situation and to plan for improvements to the governance structure. Do you expect further additional costs to arise as a result of the improvement plan that has been agreed to?

09:45