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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 22 September 2022
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much. That concludes our questions. The evidence session has raised important issues, as I said earlier, about the financial state of the college sector in Scotland in 2022 and whether it is delivering the outcomes that we all want to see for students.
I thank the Auditor General, Mark McCabe and Carolyn McLeod for their evidence; it has been very helpful, and we shall consider our next steps.
I close the public part of the meeting.
10:01 Meeting continued in private until 11:28.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 8 September 2022
Richard Leonard
Okay. However, would you not expect it to be quite well known, during that period, that CMAL had identified what was a major problem with the contract, as it was outlined by Ferguson Marine?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 8 September 2022
Richard Leonard
Okay. Our time is limited, so I want to move on to the issue of written authority, about which you said in your written submission to the committee that you
“did not then, nor now, see this as any kind of ‘decision’.”
What did you mean by that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 8 September 2022
Richard Leonard
Well, the vessels are five years late and two and a half times over budget, so maybe that is a reason why you should reflect on it.
I will bring in Willie Coffey.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 8 September 2022
Richard Leonard
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 21st meeting in 2022 of the Public Audit Committee. The first item on our agenda is a decision on taking business in private. Do members agree to take agenda item 3 in private?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 8 September 2022
Richard Leonard
The second item on our agenda is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s section 23 report entitled “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”. I welcome David Middleton, who is our first witness this morning. In 2015, he was the chief executive of Transport Scotland.
David, the committee appreciates that time has elapsed since you left your role at Transport Scotland. However, you were the most senior official at Transport Scotland when key decisions to award the contract to Ferguson Marine Engineering Ltd were made, and there are questions that we need to ask and that we need you to answer. Before we proceed to questions, I invite you to make a short opening statement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 8 September 2022
Richard Leonard
Thank you, Mr Middleton—we appreciate that. The deputy convener of the committee, Sharon Dowey, has questions to put to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 8 September 2022
Richard Leonard
And on 25 August as well.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 8 September 2022
Richard Leonard
We have minutes that CMAL submitted to us that show that.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 8 September 2022
Richard Leonard
Based on what you have just said, I am a bit confused, because the papers for the CMAL board meeting on 25 August referred to the problem with the builders refund guarantee. That is item 13 on the agenda for that meeting, at which Transport Scotland officials were present. Surely you, as the accountable officer, would have been aware of that major stumbling block.