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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of NHS Highland”

Meeting date: 13 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Welcome back to the first meeting of the Public Audit Committee in 2022. In this part of our deliberations, we will receive evidence on a recently completed Audit Scotland report into NHS Highland. I am delighted to welcome to give evidence the Auditor General for Scotland, Stephen Boyle—welcome back. In this session, Stephen is joined by Leigh Johnston, who is a senior manager for performance audit and best value at Audit Scotland. I am also pleased to extend a welcome to Joanne Brown, who is a partner at Grant Thornton and has been working on the audit.

I invite the Auditor General to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of NHS Highland”

Meeting date: 13 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I am extremely sorry, but we have run out of time in this evidence session. There is quite a lot to follow up on, not least the points that Joanne Brown was addressing just now.

I take the opportunity once again to thank you, Joanne, for your time and your evidence, which has been illuminating. I thank Leigh Johnston for her input, as always, and I thank Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General, for his work on this area.

I am sure that we will return to many of the themes that we have discussed today, not least in the light of the overall NHS Scotland audit report that Audit Scotland will produce next month. I bring the public part of the meeting to a close.

11:32 Meeting continued in private until 11:53.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of NHS Highland”

Meeting date: 13 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you—that is useful.

I turn to Sharon Dowey, who has a series of questions on the theme of the cost pressures that are demonstrated in the audit report on NHS Highland.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of NHS Highland”

Meeting date: 13 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you, Willie.

Auditor General, you are absolutely right to talk about the human dignity and respect that are at the centre of the Sturrock report and recommendations. I want to look at the overall cost and some of the nuts and bolts of that. Do you have any indication of how many further recommendations for financial payments there are likely to be? Could you clarify who is footing the bill for that? Is the funding coming from the health board itself, or is any additional Scottish Government funding being made available? Could you, Joanne Brown or Leigh Johnston shed any light on what the division is between the value of the compensation payments that have been made and the cost and administration of the process?

Could you begin by addressing those points, Stephen?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Bòrd na Gàidhlig”

Meeting date: 13 January 2022

Richard Leonard

The second item on our agenda is consideration of an Audit Scotland report, “The 2020/21 audit of Bòrd na Gàidhlig”. I welcome our witnesses to the meeting. I introduce Stephen Boyle, who is the Auditor General for Scotland; Graeme Greenhill, who is a senior manager for performance audit and best value at Audit Scotland; and Pat Kenny, who is a director of audit at Deloitte PPE.

I invite the Auditor General to make an opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Bòrd na Gàidhlig”

Meeting date: 13 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Again I point out that if anybody wants to come in, they should simply put an R in the chat box.

I will round off this section of questions. Is the continuous improvement plan in the public domain, available and accessible, in particular to members of the community who have an interest in the work of the board?

I will start with Pat again.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Bòrd na Gàidhlig”

Meeting date: 13 January 2022

Richard Leonard

We will move on to questions about leadership, which the previous section 22 report identified as an issue.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Bòrd na Gàidhlig”

Meeting date: 13 January 2022

Richard Leonard

If Graeme Greenhill or Pat Kenny want to come in at any point, they should put an R in the chat box—although I am sure that the Auditor General will bring them in.

Often, what is critical in an organisation is not simply that it makes a change, but that it keeps change going. One of the things that I note from the report is that the board appointed an external change management expert in 2021-22 to

“embed its developing approach to continuous improvement and maintain the pace of change”,

which really relates to my point. Is the appointment of that external change management expert permanent? If so, what should they prioritise in the months and years ahead?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Bòrd na Gàidhlig”

Meeting date: 13 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Willie Coffey has some questions that explore some of those areas further, in the context of openness and transparency. Over to you, Willie.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of NHS Highland”

Meeting date: 13 January 2022

Richard Leonard

I am bound to reflect on the evidence that there has been a lot of controversy in the Highlands about the centralisation of services. So, when Joanne Brown speaks about service redesign, the question that many people in the Highlands will ask is, to what extent is that clinically led and to what extent is that financially led? It may not be for the Auditor General to offer commentary on that, but any reflections that you or Joanne can make would be useful in getting the inside track on what is pushing those changes.