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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 June 2025
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Displaying 3214 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

My final question is on the leadership of the Scottish National Investment Bank. Al Denholm recently announced that he plans to step down, and Eilidh Mactaggart was formerly the chief executive officer; so, in year 5 of the bank, it will have its third permanent chief executive. I think that there was also an interim chief executive—the finance officer stepped up for a period. That is a high turnover, is it not, in the leadership of what is a quite new institution. Do you have any comments on that?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I am sure that we will continue to keep a close eye on that.

Your evidence this morning has been very helpful for us. I thank Kirsty Ridd, Catherine Young and Cornilius Chikwama, and I thank you, Auditor General, for leading on the evidence this morning.

11:27 Meeting continued in private until 11:39.  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I will move on to what is, in my view, a more positive investment—it has been referred to a couple of times already—which is the investment in a construction company that was building housing in Shetland. In the report, you mention the fact that one of the attractions of that investment, albeit that it was below the normal threshold for investments, was that the company was converting to being an employee-owned business. Again, is the ownership structure and the way in which a business is put together a factor in determining where investment is placed?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Thanks a lot. That is absolutely fine. I am conscious of the time, but we have one final line of questioning, which is going to be prosecuted by Graham Simpson.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Thanks for clearing that up. I invite Stuart McMillan to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 2 is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s performance audit of the Scottish National Investment Bank. I am pleased to welcome our witnesses. We are joined by the Auditor General for Scotland, Stephen Boyle—good morning. Alongside the Auditor General, from Audit Scotland, are Cornilius Chikwama, audit director; Catherine Young, a senior manager; and Kirsty Ridd, an audit manager.

Before we get to our questions, Auditor General, I invite you to make an opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 17th meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee. Under agenda item 1, does the committee agree to take agenda items 3 and 4 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Can I follow on from that? At paragraph 91 of the report, you give a very precise figure. You say that

“92.3 per cent of ... direct investees”

are small and medium-sized enterprises. Whose figure is that, and how is it derived?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

The starting point is that, in your report, you quote a figure that you say is an echo of a Scottish National Investment Bank figure, which shows that 92.3 per cent of investees are SMEs. I am challenging that as a likely reliable figure.

There is another point with regard to the Gresham House Forestry Fund. When the investment was first announced in August 2021, I went on to the fund’s website to look at how it positioned itself as a business and saw that it was, largely, selling forestry investment as a way of avoiding paying inheritance tax and capital gains tax. Is any kind of ethical filter applied to these investment decisions?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I think that probably quite a number of us might feel that an organisation whose raison d’être seems to be to help its clients to avoid paying tax should not necessarily be benefiting from public funding to aid its venture. I am not talking about individual directors’ conflicts of interest—I am talking about a conflict of interest between the organisation and its purpose and its resorting to the use of public funds.

Before I move on to something else, another point about the Gresham House Forestry Fund—which is of note, is it not?—is that the bank says that 60 per cent of its investments will be in Scotland. Presumably, therefore, I would deduce that at least 40 per cent are going to be investments elsewhere. I think that that means investments elsewhere in the UK, to be fair, but they are not going to be in Scotland. Is that not subject to some kind of evaluation when decisions have been made about where investments are being placed?