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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Are you getting full co-operation from Transport Scotland, the Scottish Government and the people on site? There has been a bit of coming and going of senior personnel at the site, has there not?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. I would concur with Colin Beattie on that final point.

That is the end of the questions that we have on the consolidated accounts. Thank you, Auditor General, for once again giving us the benefit of your wisdom and analysis. I also thank Michael Oliphant and Helen Russell, who joined us online.

We have a changeover of witnesses now, so I will suspend the meeting until that takes place.

10:05 Meeting suspended.  

10:06 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you—that is very helpful.

Another long-standing request—or demand—of Audit Scotland has been for the accounts of the whole of the public sector to be published. To move from one subject to the other, would the publication of the accounts of the whole of the public sector also allow for better scrutiny of the Scottish Government’s investments in private companies?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

In general, but also with particular reference to this arrangement, is there enough transparency and openness about the financial arrangements that have been entered into? I presume that that is also part of your inquiry into what is going on at Port Glasgow.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

We will continue on the theme of workforce issues.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

I want to finish the session with a few short questions. You have catalogued the challenges that the organisation has faced as a result of staff training issues and staff vacancy issues. Arguably, there continue to be significant workload burdens on the staff. There are also issues with funding, and approaches have been made to the corporate body to increase funding. At the same time, the audit report recommends that important pieces of work be carried out, which I presume would be quite substantive, such as the drafting of a full investigations manual. There is also a proposal to bring in an external investigator in order to address some of the deficiencies in the organisation.

In the light of all that, do you think that that will be achievable?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Earlier, Colin Beattie asked you about where the negotiations between the commissioner’s office and the corporate body on the release of more resources lie. I think that you said that that was still the subject of negotiation. Is that correct?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

As always, Auditor General, thank you very much for the frankness of your replies. I also take this opportunity to thank Richard Robinson as well as Pat Kenny of Deloitte, who have joined us online this morning.

That ends the public part of the meeting, and we now move into private session.

11:05 Meeting continued in private until 11:46.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

So is it that there was a policy, but it was not fit for purpose, or is it that there was a policy, but people were not sufficiently aware of it?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

We will end where we started, with the comment in the Auditor General’s opening statement that this is all about public trust in the complaints system and how complaints are dealt with. What stands out in the report are recurring phrases such as “substantial weaknesses” and the need for “significant improvements”, and in paragraph 26, the report concludes:

“The overarching risk is a loss of public trust in the ability of the Commissioner’s Office to properly investigate and consider complaints made against the conduct of individuals in public life in Scotland.”

What is your assessment of where things stand today? Is there an existing crisis of confidence in the system?