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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Decisions on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Richard Leonard

Do members also agree to take in private consideration of any subsequent draft reports on “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 2, which is the principal item on this morning’s agenda, is an evidence-taking session on the report “Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”. I am pleased to welcome once again to the committee room the Auditor General for Scotland, Stephen Boyle, who is joined online by Mark Taylor, audit director, Audit Scotland.

I am also particularly pleased to welcome to the Scottish Parliament’s Public Audit Committee Gareth Davies, Comptroller and Auditor General, National Audit Office, who is joined by Darren Stewart, audit director, National Audit Office. I think that this is the first time that Mr Davies has given evidence to the committee. Unfortunately, Mr Davies, we are able to take your evidence only in online form this morning, but I hope that in the not-too-distant future we will be able to welcome you to the Scottish Parliament to meet the Public Audit Committee in person.

I invite Stephen Boyle to give a short opening statement. I will then ask the NAO’s Comptroller and Auditor General to make some opening remarks, but over to you, Auditor General.

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Richard Leonard

We have a little bit of time in hand before we wind up, and Colin Beattie wants to come back in with a couple more questions on the cost of administering the Scottish income tax system.

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Richard Leonard

I have a final question before I open discussion up to the rest of the committee. This arrangement is quite new and evolving, and we are to some extent learning as we go along, but does HMRC have any plans to change its approach in future, given the extent to which it relies on estimates for the reports that we at the Scottish Parliament get on income tax take in Scotland?

Public Audit Committee

Decisions on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Richard Leonard

Good morning and welcome to the fourth meeting in 2022 of the Public Audit Committee.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on taking business in private. Do members agree to take items 4, 5 and 6 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I now turn to Willie Coffey, who is joining us virtually. Willie has a number of questions that he wants to put. Over to you, Willie.

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Richard Leonard

We are going to come on to questions around the cost of administering Scottish income tax shortly, and Willie Coffey will ask about the identification of Scottish S-code taxpayers. Before that, however, Craig Hoy will ask a series of questions.

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Richard Leonard

I thank Mr Davies and the Auditor General very much indeed for their opening statements. As you will expect, we have a significant number of questions.

I want to begin where you left off, Mr Davies. It seems a little bit counterintuitive that at a time of huge collapse in the economy, gross domestic product, gross value added and all the other measures of economic performance, the estimates suggest an increase in the tax take when the pandemic was at its height. We keep coming across references to estimates, samples and assumptions, but can we rely on the accuracy of those estimates?

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Richard Leonard

Can you just confirm that you have no evidence of flight of income tax payers from Scotland to England, Auditor General?

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you.

I would like to capture the essence of what we have been saying today. I say to Gareth Davies and Darren Stewart that our approach today has not been pointed at you; we have taken that approach because we are trying to understand where there are gaps and where improvements could be made.

We reflect that this is year 4 or 5 of the distinctive Scottish income tax system, and yet, even at this stage, we do not have Scotland-specific tax gap data—that is, data about the amount that should be paid versus what is actually paid. Further, we do not have Scotland-specific data on compliance and non-compliance or on income tax debt, all of which we have been probing this morning. You are right to say that the reasons relate to the service-level agreement that is in place between the Scottish Government and HMRC, and we need to consider whether it would be useful for us to explore that avenue further.

In previous years—and, to a limited extent, today as well—we have been told that the issue is all about HMRC’s limited resources. If the service-level agreement were adjusted, would it be possible to get that data disaggregated to a Scottish level, so that it could be used to inform the decisions that this Parliament needs to make around income tax rates as well as to give us an understanding of the revenues that would be generated by the rates that are set?