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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 7 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Planning for skills”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much, Auditor General. We have a large number of questions, but before we go to them, I remind everyone that, to aid broadcasting, it would be helpful if members could direct their questions to a particular member of the team. I also say to Stephen Boyle that if someone on his team other than whoever has been invited to respond wishes to come in and add something to our evidence gathering, they should put an R in the chat function. We will pick that up and bring them in.

Sharon Dowey has a number of questions.

Public Audit Committee

“Planning for skills”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

I think that there might be some problem with the cameras for Douglas Black and Gordon Smail—[Interruption.] I now see Gordon—please join us.

Public Audit Committee

“Planning for skills”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

I am sure that we will consider that. I will bring Willie Coffey in before we begin the last lap of our evidence.

Public Audit Committee

“Planning for skills”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

We have a couple more questions that we wish to ask. I will bring in Craig Hoy in a minute.

First, one of the other substantive areas of the report concerns data sharing. One of the threads that seems to run through the report is a lack of consensus between the two agencies, with a lack of agreement on timescales, measures of success and so on. There also appears to be an inordinate delay in getting a data-sharing agreement into place that addresses the task at hand around skills alignment.

I want to understand why there was such a delay in getting the data-sharing agreement in place. It seems to me that data is fundamental to the planning of future demand in the labour market, given the skills that we are going to need in five years’ time, 10 years’ time and so on. That data and that evidence are absolutely critical. Why did it take so long to get to the point that we have got to? Even now, is that data-sharing agreement fit for purpose? Will it address the challenge that we face?

Public Audit Committee

“Planning for skills”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

That was the final question. I thank the Auditor General and his team—Gordon Smail, Douglas Black and Rebecca Seidel—for joining us.

We will have a changeover of witnesses, so I suspend the meeting.

10:28 Meeting suspended.  

10:29 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee

“Planning for skills”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

If they think that they have something additional to say and want to come in, I am keen to hear their views. They do not, so I will move on.

I was also particularly struck by the strand of the skills alignment strategy relating to the appointment of a skills alignment director, which was a senior position. I will look again at the chronology—outlined in exhibit 3—after the rather dysfunctional episode with the skills committee. In February 2018, recruitment began for a skills alignment director. There was then a gap from February until October that year, when an interim director was appointed. In March 2019, the interim skills alignment director’s term ended. There was then another gap until August that year, when the permanent position was filled.

I do not know whether Gordon Smail is in a position to explain that or whether the Auditor General wants to have a go. Efficiency and effectiveness are cornerstones of what we are looking at, but the recruitment process, which was seen to be a key strategic part of driving the agenda forward, seems to have been highly inefficient. On top of that, it was decided later, after the permanent skills alignment director had left, that the post was surplus to requirements. Could you explain that for us?

Public Audit Committee

“Planning for skills”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

Can you confirm that the position was originally advertised and the recruitment process begun to appoint a permanent skills alignment director in February 2018 but the position was permanently filled only in August the following year? That is a huge gap between the intent to recruit somebody to that critical position at what I presume was a critical time and somebody finally being permanently recruited.

Public Audit Committee

“Planning for skills”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

Okay. I observe that there are huge gaps from the date of the post originally being advertised and it finally being filled permanently. However, there are also gaps in the coverage provided by an interim director or interim directors—I do not know whether it was one person or more. There were large spaces of time when there was nobody in post carrying out that function, which was seen to be pivotal to the delivery of the Scottish Government strategy.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

Willie Coffey has at least one question that follows up that line of inquiry.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

That is much appreciated. We will go straight to questions.