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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 May 2025
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Displaying 3042 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Community justice: Sustainable alternatives to custody”

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Richard Leonard

So, you dispute the conclusion that there is

“a fairly static level of progress”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 30 September 2021; c 37.]

or no progress at all. In your eyes, we are making progress in shifting the balance from custodial to non-custodial sentencing. Is that right?

Public Audit Committee

“Community justice: Sustainable alternatives to custody”

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Richard Leonard

You understand, Mr Griffin, that the committee has a healthy appetite for data.

Public Audit Committee

“Community justice: Sustainable alternatives to custody”

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Richard Leonard

Thank you, Mr Rennick. That was a very helpful and instructive answer, although it provokes a final question.

Everyone talks about the logjam in the criminal justice system because of Covid, during which the courts have operated on a very different basis. Mr Griffin, can you tell us about the department’s view of how the backlog will be managed? “Opportunities” might not be the right word, but does the current situation give you a junction in time to drive what happens in a slightly different way?

Public Audit Committee

“Community justice: Sustainable alternatives to custody”

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Richard Leonard

Thank you for ending on that very positive note.

I thank Mr Griffin, Mr Rennick and Ms Dalrymple for joining us. We appreciate your input, your candour and your vitality, at times, in responding to the questioning. Thank you very much for your time and your evidence.

I look forward to seeing Mr Griffin again soon, perhaps.

Public Audit Committee

“Community justice: Sustainable alternatives to custody”

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Richard Leonard

I suspend the meeting to allow for a changeover of witnesses.

10:04 Meeting suspended.  

10:08 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee

“Covid-19 vaccination programme”

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Richard Leonard

The committee will reflect on the answers to our questions on the health inequalities impact assessment data and the fact that it has not been published. We will deliberate on whether we can make an intervention on that.

The final area that I want to ask about and which falls within your domain relates to planning and budgeting. How do you plan and budget in a situation in which a third party—essentially the JCVI—is deciding who the priority groups are, and the chronology of who should receive boosters and further access to vaccination programmes? Do you have any reflections on how well the Scottish Government, health boards and so on have responded so far in that environment? What will the future look like and what difficulties and challenges are posed to those who have to budget for and plan those vital services?

Public Audit Committee

“Covid-19 vaccination programme”

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Richard Leonard

Thank you. The committee will look forward to receiving the outcome of that work, so I am sure that we will have more evidence-taking sessions on it in the months ahead.

I thank the Auditor General and his colleagues very much for coming along and taking part in this morning’s very helpful session.

11:03 Meeting continued in private until 11:43.  

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everybody to the seventh meeting in this parliamentary session of the Public Audit Committee. I remind members and guests that the Parliament’s rules on social distancing should be observed, and it would be greatly appreciated if you could wear a face covering when moving around, entering or leaving the room.

The first item on our agenda is to invite members to decide whether to take items 4 and 5 in private. Is that agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

“Community justice: Sustainable alternatives to custody”

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Richard Leonard

We are in our final few minutes. If other members want to come back in for another go, they are welcome to do so.

Going back to the overall outcomes and where we began, it struck me that, although we have a national strategy that has been in place since 2016 and an act of Parliament that provides for a new institutional structure to deliver community justice, the conclusion of the Audit Scotland report was that little progress appears to have been made in the intervening period.

I understand the points that Mr Griffin made at the beginning about the total volumes and how that has changed. However, as the Public Audit Committee, one of our maxims is follow the money. The Audit Scotland report states:

“Community justice funding makes up less than five per cent of overall justice funding, and there has been little change in recent years.”

If we are following the money and this is a priority and everybody wants to see a change in the balance between custodial and non-custodial, why is that so static?

Public Audit Committee

“Community justice: Sustainable alternatives to custody”

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Richard Leonard

I want to move on. I will bring in other committee members shortly, but one thing that stood out in the briefing, which other members will address, is the quite significant geographical variations in community sentencing—for example, by local authority areas. What is your understanding of the reasons for such wide and marked variations, depending on where someone is in Scotland?