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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 7 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Planning for skills”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

That is fine. That would be helpful for us in navigating the myriad of organisations, committees and boards that are supposed to be working together to further the skills alignment agenda, but are not in all cases doing so.

A proposal to increase the funding to the Scottish Funding Council and the advanced learning and science directorate in 2022-23 was also mentioned in the report. Is that money that has been ring fenced to boost the skills alignment agenda or is it additional funding that will be given to the directorate and the agency?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

The report covers the year 2020-21. Will we at some point—even if it is three years hence—see signed off accounts for SEPA for 2020-21, or is that possibility gone forever?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

The next item on our agenda is consideration of “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”. We are joined by the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle, and, via videolink, by Morag Campsie, who is a senior manager of audit services in Audit Scotland, and Joanne Brown, who is a partner in Grant Thornton UK LLP and carried out the audit.

I invite the Auditor General to make an opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

That is great. Willie Coffey, who joins us online, has a question.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

Auditor General, one of the striking things in your opening statement was the fact that the auditor issued a disclaimer of opinion on SEPA’s annual report and accounts for 2020-21 and, therefore, the accounts have not been signed off. You used the word “unusual” for that choice, and it is extremely unusual. You also said that that was principally because of unsatisfactory records or evidence around a notional £42 million of income from fees. Who takes the decision to put in that disclaimer and not sign off the accounts? Is it Joanne Brown at Grant Thornton, or is it you, the Auditor General, at Audit Scotland? At what level is that decision taken?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

I presume that that means that you—I do not know whether it is just you or a team—have to work closely with SEPA’s finance people and audit committee to ensure that things remain on track and go at the fastest pace that can be done while retaining the integrity of the accounting systems. Are you devoting a lot of your time to developing the situation from where it has been?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

Thanks, Willie. I will come back to you before the end of the session for the other area of questioning that you have.

Craig Hoy wants to explore SEPA’s response, both immediate and in the medium term, to the crisis and attack when it happened.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you for clarifying that. That is helpful.

You have inferred this to an extent, but one thing that comes out in the report is that temporary arrangements have had to be put in place for things such as paying staff salaries and paying suppliers. From your auditing perspective, were you satisfied that those temporary financial arrangements were sound?

Public Audit Committee

“Planning for skills”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you, Willie—I will come back to you.

For me, there is a stand-out feature of the report. Over recent weeks, we have looked at section 22 reports on organisations that are quite small and have fairly limited resources, budgets and staffing levels. Here, we have two premier agencies of central Government—Skills Development Scotland and the Scottish Funding Council—which have a combined budget each year of £2 billion and more of public money. Despite that, the story in the report is that, going back to 2016-17, they have failed to agree, and therefore things have not happened. That is quite staggering.

The report infers that the Scottish Government has failed to provide leadership to address and rectify the situation. There have been a few reheated attempts to set up various committees and bodies to co-ordinate things, all of which—according to the report that has been laid before the committee—seem, largely, to have failed. Why do you think that is, Auditor General?

Public Audit Committee

“Planning for skills”

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Richard Leonard

I turn to the skills alignment actions, which are, as you say, the principal focus of the report that we are considering. The report notes that in 2018-19 the Scottish Government said that it planned to issue the same strategic skills guidance, through letters of guidance, to the boards of Skills Development Scotland and the Scottish Funding Council in order to support delivery of the enterprise and skills strategic board’s strategic plan, once that was published. Has consistent and complementary guidance ever been issued by the Scottish Government to those agencies?