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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Our main agenda item this morning is consideration of a section 22 report on the 2024-25 audit of the Scottish Government’s consolidated accounts. I am pleased to welcome to the committee the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle. He is joined by Carole Grant, audit director at Audit Scotland, and Richard Smith, senior audit manager at Audit Scotland. We have a wide range of questions for you this morning, Auditor General, but before we ask our questions, I invite you to make a short opening statement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much indeed. On your final point, I am sure that we will take full evidence from you in due course on the report that came out yesterday. Nonetheless, we may have some questions this morning about some of the issues that are raised in that section 22 report.
I will begin with one of the themes that came out when the report on the Scottish Government’s consolidated accounts was published. There was some discussion around the levels of underspend. My primary question is whether you think that the levels of underspend that are reflected in the consolidated accounts are reasonable.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Wow. In the report, you speak about the individual earning—I use the term loosely—£85,000 for four months’ work. You have just said that they earned £220,000 for nine months’ work. There is supposed to be some regularity, and there is supposed to be some sort of value-for-money test applied. How on earth does that arrangement constitute value for money?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Okay. Can I just interrogate that a little bit more? On the social justice underspend of £164 million, are you saying that that is unspent money on cladding remediation, for example? Did you also say that it is part of the social security budget, or have I picked that up wrong?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Yes, and obviously, as a committee, we will consider who else we may want to take evidence from on this report, up to and including the permanent secretary. That is for us to decide.
I am conscious of the time, and I wanted to raise one other point with you, which is about the industrial interventions, which are a feature of this year’s report, as they have been in previous years. During the time that I have been chairing this committee, the Government has established a strategic commercial assets division, which has express responsibility for oversight of these interventions, most obviously Ferguson Marine (Port Glasgow) Ltd, but also the Lochaber smelter, Glasgow Prestwick Airport Ltd and Burntisland Fabrications Ltd. Do you think that the strategic commercial assets division is working effectively in ensuring value for money?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much, and thanks for answering those questions. I now invite the deputy convener to put his questions to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Okay, thank you. Other members of the committee may want to ask questions on that part of the report.
I will move to another area. One comment in the report that jumped out at me was about agency staff. Presumably we cannot name the department or identify the person concerned, but you cite one example of somebody who I think was a former employee of the Scottish Government and who came back on an agency basis, part time over four months, and billed the Government for £85,000 or more. Is that a common occurrence? Was it something that stood out as an isolated incident? What is your take?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Mr Simpson will ask you about Historic Environment Scotland in short order. However, the deep dive took place way back, did it not? I presume that it was after the initial WICS section 22 report.
Meeting of the Commission
Meeting date: 11 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Okay. My final question is on the balance that you have at the moment. Auditor General, you have already referred to the fact that private firms carry out around about a third of the public audit work in Scotland. What does your current market intelligence tell you about that? We have heard before that there might be some increase in the costs that the private sector would expect to enjoy in carrying that work out. You said that you expect to enter the next five-year cycle in 2027-28, which is not too far away. At this stage, what are you doing to understand where the market is and consider whether there are different options that the board, led by Mr Crosby, will need to consider?
Meeting of the Commission
Meeting date: 11 December 2025
Richard Leonard
I take that point completely.