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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 November 2025
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Displaying 3464 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 17th meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee. Under agenda item 1, does the committee agree to take agenda items 3 and 4 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Can I follow on from that? At paragraph 91 of the report, you give a very precise figure. You say that

“92.3 per cent of ... direct investees”

are small and medium-sized enterprises. Whose figure is that, and how is it derived?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

The starting point is that, in your report, you quote a figure that you say is an echo of a Scottish National Investment Bank figure, which shows that 92.3 per cent of investees are SMEs. I am challenging that as a likely reliable figure.

There is another point with regard to the Gresham House Forestry Fund. When the investment was first announced in August 2021, I went on to the fund’s website to look at how it positioned itself as a business and saw that it was, largely, selling forestry investment as a way of avoiding paying inheritance tax and capital gains tax. Is any kind of ethical filter applied to these investment decisions?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I think that probably quite a number of us might feel that an organisation whose raison d’être seems to be to help its clients to avoid paying tax should not necessarily be benefiting from public funding to aid its venture. I am not talking about individual directors’ conflicts of interest—I am talking about a conflict of interest between the organisation and its purpose and its resorting to the use of public funds.

Before I move on to something else, another point about the Gresham House Forestry Fund—which is of note, is it not?—is that the bank says that 60 per cent of its investments will be in Scotland. Presumably, therefore, I would deduce that at least 40 per cent are going to be investments elsewhere. I think that that means investments elsewhere in the UK, to be fair, but they are not going to be in Scotland. Is that not subject to some kind of evaluation when decisions have been made about where investments are being placed?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I am sorry, but this is work that the Scottish Government, using public money, has commissioned a private consultancy company to carry out. Why should we not at least know the scope of its work and its terms of reference?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay, so you have not done that yet.

You pledged to establish a transparency assurance panel to review the sensitivity status of material that is recorded in SCAD’s register of commercial advice. Have you established the transparency assurance panel?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

The answer is not yet, is it not?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

You also agreed to a recommendation that emanated from this committee’s work on the arrangements for ferries 801 and 802. The committee took evidence that suggested that there had been direction to the board of CMAL in the guise of shareholder authorisation. Is it correct that you have committed to publishing information about such instances, so that the Parliament will be notified when equivalent things happen in the future?

11:30  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

That is fine.

I have one final question, which goes back to the GFG Alliance. You have alluded to proceedings that are currently under way around the specialist steel division, which is part of the GFG Alliance. The committee is also interested in a statement that the GFG Alliance put out in February this year, which was headed

“GFG reaches agreement with Greensill creditors on global debt settlement terms”.

Greensill, which was GFG’s financial backer, went into administration. Could you explain to us what that refinancing agreement means for the businesses that are owned by the GFG Alliance in Scotland?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Excellent. The next recommendation was on the establishment of

“An independent panel ... to provide challenge and review of proposed interventions.”

Have you established that?