Seòmar agus comataidhean

Thank you very much. That concludes our questions for this session. I think I said at the start that it was a section 22 report. It was a section 23 report, but contained some trenchant criticism nonetheless. Sharon Dowey referred to the fact that this is apprenticeship week and there have been numerous references to last week’s publication of the national strategy for economic transformation, which said:

“A skilled population is fundamental to business productivity and economic prosperity.”

For those reasons it is important that we get these things right and we do not preside over some pretty fundamental—“systematic” is a word that has been used wisely this morning—failures.

The only other point I would make is that we will of course have an opportunity to look at the shared outcomes framework document in due course, and we shall do that. I am quite sure that the Auditor General will want to have a look at it as well. We will do that and we may well come back to you with further questions, Mr Griffin. That leads me to my final point: if we had known about the timing of this important document, which is absolutely central to the discussions that we have had this morning, we could have rescheduled this evidence session so that we could have taken full account of it. I hope that that is one of the things that you and your team will think about after leaving this meeting.

I will draw the public part of the meeting to a close and thank the director general for his evidence. I also thank Helena Gray and Adam Reid, and Helen Webster, who joined us online.

I will now invite Craig Hoy to ask questions.

Thank you—that is much appreciated.

Colin Beattie has a series of questions on leadership and culture and some of the other big issues that are raised in the briefing.

I see that Antony Clark wants to come in. Perhaps he will be able to answer Colin Beattie’s question.

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the seventh meeting in 2022 of the Public Audit Committee. I remind members, witnesses and staff that social distancing rules are still in place. Please respect those and wear a face covering when moving around the room or entering or exiting the room. However, face coverings can be removed when you are seated at the table.

Under agenda item 1, the committee will decide whether to take agenda items 3 and 4 in private. Does the committee agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

We have questions covering the range of issues that are raised in the briefing, which is extensive and raises matters of concern. Not least of those is the fact that about £5.2 billion of public expenditure is currently invested in social care, yet we have the issues of concern that the report highlights and draws us towards. You say that we have increasing demand and demographic changes, and that there is still a lot of unmet need.

I want to begin by looking at the sustainability of the social care system. You make it clear in the briefing that, although the Parliament in this session will legislate for the creation of a national care service, there is a degree of urgency around the action that is needed to tackle some of the unmet needs and some of the challenges that social care providers and the social care workforce face. In fact, at one point, your briefing says that the system is “near-crisis”. Is the Scottish Government putting sufficient resources into social care?

You mentioned commissioning, the workforce and reward, and we have a series of questions on those issues, which we will come to.

First, a striking thing about the briefing is that you say how important it is that service users’ perspectives and voices are seen and heard. There is a suggestion that, at the moment, those are not seen or heard as much as they might be. Are you aware of work being carried out by the Scottish Government that seeks to bring in the views of service users, their families and people who receive care, so that, in turn, they can inform the strategic planning of social care in Scotland?

Thank you, Antony. That was helpful.

Another piece of legislation that Parliament passed on which you also reflect in the briefing is the Carers (Scotland) Act 2016, which provides for rights for unpaid carers. In your briefing, you reflect on a survey—from 2019, admittedly—that was carried out by the Coalition of Carers in Scotland. We should, of course, bear it in mind that there are 700,000 unpaid carers, so we are talking about a huge part of the population. The survey found that of those 700,000 people—or, I presume, a sample of them—

“only 16 per cent ... knew of the Act and what rights it provides; 33 per cent had heard of it but did not know what it was about; and 51 per cent had never heard of”

the act or the rights that it bestowed. Does not that highlight an issue that clearly needs to be addressed? What, as far as you are aware, is the Government doing to address the fact that, although there is an act of Parliament that gives unpaid carers rights, many of them are ignorant of those rights?

Sharon Dowey has a series of questions to put.

Antony Clark mentioned change and reform being on the agenda, and Craig Hoy has a final series of questions about what the future holds.