Skip to main content
Loading…

Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Criathragan Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 September 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 3340 contributions

|

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

We are going to pursue those issues in a moment, but I want to take you back to the 31 August announcement. We now know from internal emails that were released in 2019 that there was an email to Keith Brown on 20 August 2015, copying in Alexander Anderson, the senior special adviser to the First Minister. Under the heading “Presentational issues”, paragraph 16 says:

“It would be appropriate for Mr Mackay as Minister for Transport and Islands to lead on this announcement”.

However, we know that, 11 days later, the First Minister was accompanying Mr Mackay and presumably leading on the announcement. What did you know about what was going on behind the scenes at the Scottish Government at that point?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

So that was the clear inference. Were you invited to that event, as non-executive members of the board?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

There was an internal email, issued on 20 August, that recommended that Mr Mackay lead on the announcement, but you are saying that, by the next day, there had been an intervention that meant that the First Minister was leading on the announcement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Had you been available to attend, would you have attended?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Interestingly, since January, you have been the chair of David MacBrayne Ltd, so you have gone from being part of the client body to being the chair of the body that will receive and operate the ferries.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

I go back to what was said at the beginning of the evidence session. You were the chair of the board that signed off on the contracts—whether by instruction or otherwise—and you are now the chair of the board that will, I hope, be in receipt of the ferries.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

For us, this is not just about the contractual relationship and the business refund guarantee arrangements; it is about the fact that the ferries are five years late and counting and are two and a half times over budget and counting.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

That would be in 2023.

Public Audit Committee

Major Capital Projects

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

We are really pushed for time, so, if you could make your final point very short, that would be very welcome.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

We have run out of time. As you say, Mr Hobbs, we might want to explore further issues with you, but I thank all three witnesses for the time that they have given us this morning and for their openness. That has been appreciated.

As I mentioned at the start of the meeting, we have been able to publish some written evidence. We are keen to publish subsequent evidence, but we have to go through a certain due process in order to put that into the public domain. We will do that and give the matter further consideration. We might come back to the witnesses with questions that arise from that process. As a committee, we will also need to consider whether there would be value in having a further evidence session, because we have covered some areas in some detail, but we probably have not had the time to scrutinise other areas as much as we would have liked—it might not feel like that to the witnesses, from their end, but that is our take. I thank them once again.

I will suspend the meeting to allow for a changeover of witnesses.