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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Thank you. Again, in the evidence that we have taken, it has been recognised that this was not just a short-term issue. There was a long-term legacy of inadequate internal audit and inadequate resourcing in the finance department. As was mentioned at the committee before Christmas, there were five directors of finance in a very short period of time, which suggests that something was not quite right—I see Mike Baxter nodding his head.
I will move us on, because Colin Beattie has some questions to put. Colin, over to you.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
I turn straight to Vicki Nairn for her opening statement.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much, and a belated happy new year to you, too.
I will start by looking at progress through the lens of your annual reports, Auditor General. To some extent that is captured in appendix 5 of the report that the committee has before it today, but when I went back to look at the equivalent report from 2024, I saw that you made recommendations that certain things should happen, and I want to check the extent to which progress on those fronts has been made.
One of your top recommendations was that there ought to be a capital investment and asset management strategy. Is there one? You talked about the need for a revised medium-term financial framework for health and social care. Has there been one? You also talked about the importance of lessons being learned from the negotiations following the contractual end of the private finance initiative/public-private partnership contracts, which have been a long-standing feature of the NHS. Could you update the committee on the progress on that front?
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
There is no shortage of challenge. I am sure that the committee will consider whether we want to put some of those challenges to the Government’s representative, as the accountable officer, in future weeks.
For the purposes of today, I will draw the evidence session to a close by thanking Bernie Milligan, Leigh Johnston and the Auditor General for the evidence that they have presented to us. As I said, we will consider our next steps.
As agreed by the committee, I now move the meeting into private.
12:46 Meeting continued in private until 13:05.Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Sorry—Alistair Wylie wishes to come in.
10:30Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Thanks. That is useful.
We will have to move things on, so I invite Graham Simpson to put his questions to the witnesses.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
You can stand by your fax machine and wait for it to come through.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Before we leave this area, I go back to Vicki Nairn. You may have seen the submission that we received from the EIS Further Education Lecturers Association dated 15 December. This goes back to the point about what UHI was doing at that point in the history of UHI Perth when budgets were not being set, things were being allowed to drift and there were splits in the board about whether the budget should be set. The EIS-FELA submission talks of the “Inaction” and “lack of action” of the UHI court/regional strategic body. The letter names you, Vicki Nairn. How do you respond to that?
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Okay—thank you.
Finally, I return to Catherine Etri and Lynn Murray. Again, following the evidence that we took in December, we got a note from Iain Wishart. He wrote to us in what I thought was quite an extraordinary way. He had a section in his letter where he posed the question,
“How Useful is a Budget?”
He gave a three-point list of reasons, from A to C, why it is not especially useful to set a budget. He said:
“While I fully support doing budgets, they are only one tool within financial planning and do have weaknesses”.
I suppose that I am asking you the question, Lynn Murray, as his successor: do you agree with that?
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Do you accept what the Auditor General told us when he gave evidence in October? He was quite stark. He said:
“I ... cannot recall, from my time in this role and during my career of auditing public bodies in Scotland, an organisation that has not prepared an annual budget.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 8 October 2025; c 5.]