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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 3 November 2025
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Displaying 3443 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Richard Leonard

We are coming towards the end of our session. On that last point, Mr Johnston, you said earlier that the data is in place to inform the second phase of the plan, but it is worth reflecting that the key messages in the briefing are quite critical of the Scottish Government. Key message 1 says:

“The Scottish Government has not yet demonstrated a clear shift to preventing child poverty.”

Key message 2 says:

“It is not possible to assess the success of the Scottish Government’s first four-year plan to reduce child poverty, launched in 2018.”

The briefing goes on to cite Bill Scott saying that there is not a link between spending decisions, outcomes and targets being met. That is one reason why we as the Public Audit Committee are keen to keep an eye on the issue and keep scrutinising it, and why the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission want to keep it under their watchful eye and produce further briefings.

Auditor General, do you want to say a word about that before I come to my final question?

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Richard Leonard

Colin Beattie has more questions on this area.

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you. We will come to the human rights of children quite early on, Bruce.

I will put my first question to John Dickie of the Child Poverty Action Group. Although we are an audit committee, we are also interested in the human face of what is happening out there. Will you start us off by drawing on your experience to give some examples of the impact of living in poverty and of the experiences that you have drawn on from children and families who live below the poverty line?

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Richard Leonard

Does anyone else want to comment on that?

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Richard Leonard

Before Colin Beattie comes back in, a few people have indicated that they want to come in on this question—I think that it has stirred things up, Colin.

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Richard Leonard

Thanks. One thing that occurs to me is that children are only five or 10 once and we need to get it right now. There is an urgency to the matter, is there not, John? Unless we get it right now, it will change the course of those young people’s lives.

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Richard Leonard

I want to pick up that point with Hanna McCulloch and Matthew Sweeney. Paragraph 44 of the briefing is pretty clear in its critique of the patchy return by local authority area. The briefing says:

“people with experience of living in poverty were rarely involved in developing plans”,

which is the point that John Dickie has just made. The briefing continues:

“only four out of 27 reports available had an introduction signed by the chief executive. The level of sign-off of reports was seen as an indicator of the level of commitment to tackling child poverty”.

It goes on to say that

“most reports used data well in describing their local area”,

but that

“not many reports considered monitoring and evaluation carefully”.

Do you have any reflections on that? Do you accept it as fair criticism?

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Richard Leonard

It is useful to have that on the record.

Hanna, the briefing mentions the Renfrewshire tackling poverty commission, of which you were a member, if I have been informed correctly.

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Richard Leonard

That leads us on nicely to a question from Sharon Dowey.

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Richard Leonard

Matthew Sweeney has just alluded to that, too. You said earlier that there is a limit to the extent to which some of these big questions can be tackled at local government level. First, do you want to comment on the part of the briefing that I read out? Secondly, will you give us some of your reflections from being involved in that commission?