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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 July 2025
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Displaying 3287 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 8 September 2022

Richard Leonard

Okay. I will now bring in other members of the committee who have questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 8 September 2022

Richard Leonard

Yes, I am happy to let you answer.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 8 September 2022

Richard Leonard

But CMAL has also told us that it offered to meet you to talk about its concerns, which were clearly still live and outstanding come that second week in October. Why did you not take up that offer?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 8 September 2022

Richard Leonard

No, I am asking who, to your knowledge, signed off that voted loan decision.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 8 September 2022

Richard Leonard

Yes. However, I have a brief question for you. As the cabinet secretary for finance, would you not have been involved in that kind of decision?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 8 September 2022

Richard Leonard

Graham Simpson, would you like to put your questions now?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 8 September 2022

Richard Leonard

I will pick up on that point. Was Transport Scotland present at the CMAL board during that August to October period?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 8 September 2022

Richard Leonard

There was quite a crucial date in or around that period. On 20 August, five days before the CMAL board meeting, during which the builders refund guarantee was discussed as a major issue, Keith Brown, as Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities, was told by a Transport Scotland official to approve the preferred bidder award to Ferguson Marine. Given that, on 25 August, there was knowledge of an issue around the builders refund guarantee, surely that was known on 20 August. If so, why was that not communicated to the cabinet secretary?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 8 September 2022

Richard Leonard

On that point, one of the final emails in the collection was sent at 5.15 pm on 9 October by Ainslie McLaughlin. It says:

“Just finished my call with DFM. He now understands the background and that Mr McKay has cleared the proposal. So the way is clear to award.”

The Deputy First Minister, either as the Deputy First Minister or as the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy at the time, was involved right at the point of decision. The email before that says:

“would you drop a note in the system to confirm the absence of banana skins after your call with DFM please”.

What would the “banana skins” be?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 8 September 2022

Richard Leonard

Why did Roy Brannen tell this committee, on 26 May,

“If it was a transport project, it would be ... a decision entirely for the minister”?—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 26 May 2022; c 5.]