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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Thanks.
Christine Lester, will the Accounts Commission monitor the Verity house agreement and its outcomes?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Perhaps Leigh Johnston would like to come in.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Thank you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Before I bring in Graham Simpson, I will take you back to the emergency budget review, in order to fully understand what you are saying. Auditor General, you said that the exercise was about identifying underspends and rationing the public finances according to that. However, when Eva Thomas-Tudo spoke about that, she said—as I interpret it—that that exercise has knocked off track the targeted support for GPs by 2026, for example. Was that going to be underspent, and that is the reason why the £38 million cut was made, or has the £38 million cut resulted in your assessment that that will not be on track?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Thank you, Auditor General, for the evidence that you have led this morning, along with Leigh Johnston, Eva Thomas-Tudor, and Christine Lester from the Accounts Commission. I thank you all very much for giving us your time and your thoughts and reflections, and for giving us some very useful evidence that we will now consider in deciding what next steps we want to take on this hugely important area.
May I say, Auditor General, that I think that this is one of the strongest reports that you have produced, certainly in my time as the convener of the Public Audit Committee. It is very clearly driven by the evidence and has reached some pretty stark conclusions that I think all of us, as members of the Scottish Parliament, will need to reflect on. Thank you very much indeed.
10:34 Meeting continued in private until 11:25.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Maybe—or maybe not. Ultimately, if we are creating these institutions and if Parliament is legislating to set up a way of delivering services, we should expect the leadership that is necessary to drive that forward to be in place. I guess that that is what we, as the Public Audit Committee, expect, too.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Good.
I am conscious of the time, and we still have some important areas to cover. As we are on the topic of local government, I will ask quickly about the Verity house agreement. Auditor General, I will start with you. Can you give us your assessment whether that agreement will make a difference to the delivery of mental health services?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 September 2023
Richard Leonard
That was helpful.
Turning again to progress towards improving mental health services, can you tell us a bit more about the support that the Scottish Government has been providing to NHS boards to help them meet their psychological therapies waiting time targets, as highlighted in the report?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 September 2023
Richard Leonard
You mentioned Grampian, but Tayside is also highlighted in the report. Tayside has been the subject of not just local but national interest, because of some tragic cases of people completing suicide, for example. In that case study, you characterise things as making “good progress”. Subsequent to the Strang report, an oversight and assurance group was put together to ensure that the health board was implementing the Strang review recommendations—there were, I think, 51 of them. I read the oversight and assurance group report when it came out in January, and my reading of it was that it echoed some of the points that Strang had made, in that there was an overreporting of progress by NHS Tayside in the area. I think that, on 17 of the 51 recommendations, the group took issue with the health board’s view of how well it was doing. Basically, it said to the board, “You’re not making the progress that you are stating that you are making.”
Do you want to reflect on that issue, given that it is mentioned in the report?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 September 2023
Richard Leonard
I appreciate that response.
We are pressed for time. I will bring in Willie Coffey, followed by Sharon Dowey, and then I will bring in Graham Simpson if we have time.