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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Good morning, and welcome, everyone, to the 25th meeting in 2023 of the Public Audit Committee. The first item on the agenda is a decision on whether to take items 3, 4 and 5 in private. Are members of the committee content to do that?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 October 2023
Richard Leonard
The committee’s main agenda item is item 2, which is a session on the Auditor General for Scotland and Accounts Commission section 23 report “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”. I am pleased that we are joined by four representatives today. We are joined, from the Scottish Government, by Neil Rennick, director general for education and justice, and Eleanor Passmore, deputy director for early learning and childcare, and, from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, by Matthew Sweeney, policy manager for children and young people, and Joanna Anderson, policy manager for local government and finance.
Before we ask questions of the Scottish Government team and the representatives from COSLA, I ask Mr Rennick to give an opening statement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Thank you. When we took evidence previously, one of the elements that we were interested in was construction inflation, which was defined as being about 30 per cent—considerably higher than even the retail prices index and the consumer prices index. We were not clear on what you have identified as the principal drivers for inflation in the construction sector. Can you shed any light on that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Thank you. I turn to the representatives of COSLA. Joanna Anderson, I am sure that your ears pricked up when you heard the director general say that no local authority had approached the Government for additional support for capital investment. What is the local government perspective on what has happened with capital spending?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 October 2023
Richard Leonard
But is it the right hard data?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 October 2023
Richard Leonard
I am not sure that we accept that data and delivery are two entirely separate entities. I think that there is an extremely strong relationship between the two.
Willie Coffey has some questions to put to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 October 2023
Richard Leonard
I hope that one of the outcomes that is measured is not just economistic but is about the flowering of the human spirit and how the programme will help the children and young people going through it to prosper in the future—not just as economic units, but as human beings.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 October 2023
Richard Leonard
I will go swiftly to the deputy convener, Sharon Dowey, who has some questions that follow up on that theme.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much. I think that you said that, as the accountable officer, you accept all the recommendations in the report that was produced by Audit Scotland and the Accounts Commission. Is that correct, Mr Rennick?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much.
I turn to something that we took evidence on back in June, when the Auditor General’s report was published. At that point, there was real interest in the capital spend to deliver these quite ambitious targets. At that time, the evidence that we were given was that the Scottish Futures Trust was going to gather information on capital spend and try to come up with some estimates of current spend and what future spend might be. Mr Rennick, can you update us on where we have got to with that work by the Scottish Futures Trust?