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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Agenda item 2 is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s briefing paper, “Scotland’s colleges 2023”. I am pleased to welcome our witnesses: the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle, is joined by—from Audit Scotland—Mark MacPherson, audit director; Tricia Meldrum, senior manager; and Douglas Black, audit manager. You are all very welcome.
Auditor General, feel free to field any of our questions to the most appropriate people on your team. Before we get to the questions, I invite you to make a short opening statement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much indeed. As you said, it is a briefing and not a full report that makes recommendations but, nonetheless, it contains some very stark warnings. You have already used the word “risks”. One of the warnings is the view that the risks to the college sector’s financial sustainability have increased since 2022. Will you give us an overview of what those risks are, in your view?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
That is very helpful. Just for confirmation, do we expect that report to be produced by the Scottish Funding Council before the end of November?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
In paragraph 14 of the briefing, you describe a 70 per cent cut in staffing over a five-year period at Ayrshire College as
“a scenario in which it could no longer function.”
Is it a scenario in which it could no longer function in its present form or is the full stop after “function”?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
In stark terms, is insolvency a risk for any of the colleges in Scotland?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
I said that we were in the final approach, but I have an indication from Willie Coffey that he wants to ask a question, so I will bring him back in.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
There are two quick final questions from me, one of which is about not something that is in the briefing especially, but a recurring theme in previous briefings and reports, including the section 22 report on South Lanarkshire College. It is about the regional board structure and whether that represents a sensible part of the whole governance landscape or is, frankly, surplus to requirements. Do you have any reflections on that question?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Thank you. We will conclude the evidence session on that note of sharp realism.
Auditor General, I thank you and your team—Mark MacPherson, Tricia Meldrum and Douglas Black—for the evidence that you have given to us this morning. As I have said, it will be for the committee to consider what its next steps are, but the briefing has been an extremely valuable brief insight into the state of finances in Scotland’s colleges especially. I thank you for that.
I will now move the committee into private session.
10:11 Meeting continued in private until 11:26.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much. On a similar theme, and to develop some of those points, Graham Simpson has some questions to put to you.
09:15Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Sharon Dowey has a supplementary question on this area.