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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. Do you accept the Auditor General’s critique in his briefing on public finances? He said just a couple of months ago:

“The pace and scale of reform required across the public sector needs to increase.”

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

The watchword for us is transparency. Regardless of whether we are looking at the reserve balance, which is not disclosed in the accounts, the failure to produce significant progress on the whole-of-public-sector consolidated accounts, or the extent to which there is transparency about capital borrowing, the view of the committee and the Auditor General is that much more could be done to improve levels of transparency. I hope that you will reflect on that.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

It is a higher-than-normal level of risk, is it not, given that the supply chain banker of the organisation went into administration and the Serious Fraud Office is investigating the company because of concerns about fraud and money laundering? Unusually, the auditors that they had resigned, and the finance director walked. It is not just another company; it has been under considerable scrutiny from parliamentary committees, this one included, because there are real, grave concerns about the business model that it operates on.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Thanks. In the end, this is about accountability to Parliament.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

I have a couple of quick final questions. First, going back to the GFG Alliance deal, you seemed to suggest that there was no cost to the public purse and that everything was fine, but the Auditor General’s report points out that £13.5 million of Scottish Government loans were written off during 2019-2020 and 2020-21. So there has been some debt write-off there. The provision for the guarantee arrangement is valued at £114 million. I accept that that is less than it was when you sat before us last year, but it is still 300 per cent greater than it was two years ago. There are things going on, and I am sure that you will have seen the Auditor General’s comments about the volatility of the situation and how things can unravel quickly. Can you give us your views on that?

10:30  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. For us, it is not just about the £52 million but about the governance arrangements, the outcomes, the whole way in which it operates and whether there is any displacement effect, for example.

09:15  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

We have quite a lot of questions to get through, and I am anxious to press the accelerator a little bit. I invite Willie Coffey to come in.

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2021/22”

Meeting date: 9 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Sorry—I can look it up in your report. I think that there were four areas in which reference was made to methodology and you looked at what could be reasonably assessed. The report states that

“the use of sample data introduces sampling uncertainty”,

so the figures are based on samples. Paragraph 1.22 in your report has four bullet points. The second point is:

“the methodology combines the calculation of PAYE and Self Assessment liabilities.”

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2021/22”

Meeting date: 9 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. Later this morning, we will go on to talking a little more about debt collection. For now, the deputy convener, Sharon Dowey, has some questions.

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2021/22”

Meeting date: 9 February 2023

Richard Leonard

It goes back to our earlier conversation about the service level agreement and whether, if additional payment was made to HMRC, that could elicit, notwithstanding some of the methodological challenges, the kind of data that, it seems to us, would be fundamentally useful to have.

Before I bring in Willie Coffey, I raise the issue of debt collection, which, so far, has been mentioned only in the passing. Somebody mentioned the regular reporting to the Public Accounts Committee from HMRC, the NAO—of course—and other Government bodies. The UK Government’s response on the 48th report of session 2021-22 was a reflection on where things had got to with tax collection. It highlights:

“In addition, from September 2022, there will be a new contract through which HMRC places debt with private debt collection agencies (DCAs). This will allow HMRC to increase placements with DCAs by around £1 billion a year without increasing the cost to the Exchequer.”

Are those debt collection agencies doing that for free—given that it is said that there is no cost to the exchequer—or are they taking a percentage of everything that is collected, which is normally what happens in such situations? Are those agencies operational in Scotland? Are you aware of whether the Scottish Government has a view about the deployment of private debt collection agencies, and who are they, principally?