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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 November 2025
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Displaying 3464 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Well, I think that the people who are watching this will have a view about what has been delivered, what the performance has been like, what the outturns have been and whether those match up to people getting a 17.5 per cent “incentive payment”, or bonus—as you wish, because that will be something that people make up their own minds about.

I have a final question for Mr Irwin about something that was drawn out in the evidence session with the Auditor General but which is also contained in the report.

Earlier, you mentioned the sponsorship team arrangement. The Auditor General’s view is that there is a good deal of “ambiguity” about the relationship between the sponsorship team and FMPG and about how oversight worked. Actually, one of the catalysts for his drawing that conclusion was the fact that there was no advance clearance of the remuneration system.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. We will move on now, and I invite Willie Coffey to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

In the interests of transparency, I should draw people’s attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests and my trade union affiliations.

I have one final question, as we have all four of you here. I go back to the point about the sponsor team arrangements. My question is first and foremost to David Tydeman. How well supported do you think you are by the sponsorship team in the Scottish Government?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I want to pick up on that issue. We are very interested in written authority, because we have not seen any since 2007. Therefore, you will understand why we are interrogating the procedure, who was involved, and what steps were taken. You have confirmed that the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance were involved. Do you speak to the permanent secretary about those decisions?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Forgive me. Those are steps that were taken by a minister that we have not seen for a very long time. However, rather than simply saying that you do not think that something represents value for money, full stop, in the letter you go on to elaborate about there being

“entirely legitimate and important factors that Ministers can take into account”.

Do you not think that that was straying into territory that is about Government policy? Is it not your job simply to say whether something meets the test of propriety, regularity and value for money?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “How the Scottish Government is set to deliver climate change goals”

Meeting date: 18 May 2023

Richard Leonard

There is a sense—I picked this up from your report and the Scottish Government’s just transition commission’s recommendations—that there is a degree of impatience that the climate emergency was declared back in 2019, but, in 2023, some fairly basic building blocks are still not in place in a way that we would perhaps expect.

One of the things that struck me—this picks up on Sally Thompson’s comments—is exhibit 3 in the report, which refers to what you describe as “by exception” reporting being in place between key Government groups. In other words, there is no routine, systematic or regular collaboration in that sense. I am not saying that that happens by chance, but it does not routinely happen. Do you have any comments on that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “How the Scottish Government is set to deliver climate change goals”

Meeting date: 18 May 2023

Richard Leonard

On a similar theme, you draw attention in the report to the deputy director network, which you describe as a

“key climate change governance body”.

It seems to operate informally, so I again ask the basic question: does that network produce minutes?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “How the Scottish Government is set to deliver climate change goals”

Meeting date: 18 May 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I will move things along now and invite Craig Hoy to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “How the Scottish Government is set to deliver climate change goals”

Meeting date: 18 May 2023

Richard Leonard

I will continue with the theme of risk management in the final series of questions that we want to put you. Towards the end of the report, we read a reference to an exercise that took place in summer of 2022 inside the net zero directorate, which took part in what you describe as a risk housekeeping exercise. The result of that housekeeping exercise was the conclusion that the net zero directorate demonstrated a maturity level of novice to organised. My understanding is that that means that the directorate had only just started to implement processes that were in line with Scottish Government guidelines. It was at a very early stage—a novice stage—in that regard.

Do you have a concern about that, given that this is the directorate that is supposed to be showing leadership and driving forward this agenda across the whole of Government?

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 18 May 2023

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 15th meeting in 2023 of the Public Audit Committee. The first agenda item is for the committee to consider whether to take agenda items 3, 4, 5 and 6 in private. Is that agreed?

Members indicated agreement.