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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

That is a very clear answer, which is very helpful. Thank you

Willie Coffey has some more questions to put to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

We have spoken a little bit already about flexibility and outcomes. One of the expected outcomes that there has, I think, been some measurement of was that the increased provision for pre-school education might lead to parents and carers taking a decision to defer their children going into primary school. On the evidence that you have produced in the report, that does not appear to have happened to the extent that people may have expected. Will you say a little more about that? Do you have any understanding of why that is? Is it a cultural thing? Are there other factors at play that mean that we have not seen the choice, which is there, being made to defer children’s going into primary school?

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the Public Audit Committee’s 18th meeting in 2023.

The first item on our agenda is for members to consider whether to take in private agenda items 3, 4 and 5. Are members agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

I should also record that we have apologies from Colin Beattie.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

This morning, we will hear evidence on the Audit Scotland and Accounts Commission section 23 report, “Early learning and childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”. To that end, I welcome our four witnesses. We are joined by the Auditor General for Scotland, Stephen Boyle, who is accompanied by Tricia Meldrum, a senior manager at Audit Scotland, and Rebecca Smallwood, an audit manager at Audit Scotland. I am pleased that we are also joined by Sophie Flemig from the Accounts Commission. It is a joint report by the two organisations. You are all very welcome.

We have a number of questions to put to you on the report but, before we get to questions, I ask the Auditor General to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed.

My first question is on that last point. You make it clear in the report that it is too early or you are not yet in a position to make an assessment around the impact of the policy. What do you envisage your timescale being to be able to do that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Willie Coffey is also deputy convener of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, so he has a particular interest in seeing how that spread works.

Can I return very briefly to infrastructure, capital spend and so on? In the report, you talk about completion rates. I think that you said that the completion rate had risen from 87 per cent to 95 per cent over the course of the year that you were looking at. What is the current completion rate?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

I am sure that we will return to that theme as early as next week.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

I second that, but maybe from a slightly different perspective. If there is a concentration or consolidation of ownership, it would be useful to monitor that, because that, in turn, will affect the way that the sector functions and its relationship with the public sector. We would certainly welcome a bit more evidence on that.

I thank Sophie Flemig from the Accounts Commission and, from Audit Scotland, Rebecca Smallwood, Tricia Meldrum and the Auditor General for their evidence, which has been very enlightening. Thank you very much indeed for the work that you have done on the subject. It is, by everybody’s understanding, an extremely important piece of policy work, and the auditing of it is especially important. We would certainly like to ask you to give it active consideration in the future, because it is an important piece of new developmental work that has much broader implications for young people, the wider economy and so on.

I will now draw the public part of this morning’s session to a close.

10:42 Meeting continued in private until 11:05.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Craig Hoy has a final, short question.